httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghMeeXxYbho&eurl
…and let the truth fall where it may.
“We prosecuted our own soldiers for using it in Vietnam,” Mr. Holder said. “Waterboarding is torture.” (source: NY Times)
I’m against a “truth commission” on torture. I’m also against going after people down the chain who followed orders. Torture was deemed legal from the top, with everything falling from there. Christopher Hitchens is simply stark raving mad to say the demand for torture came from “our society.” I’ll leave Hitchens’ demand for “tongue” from Andrew Sullivan alone. To note, Digby thinks Hitches just “mildly insane,” so I could be wrong.
President Barack Obama, as of noon tomorrow (whether the oath has yet been administered or not), doesn’t have to do anything more than he has done regarding changing U.S. policies on torture. All he has to do is trust his appointment to Justice, A.G. Eric Holder, to do his job, following the law wherever it leads.
In fact, it would be beneficial to President Obama if he and his attorney general had a public and open debate about where the investigation would lead. Protecting the presidency, Obama could hold one view on “looking forward,” while Holder demands accountability in the law, because that’s his job, with is independence from the presidency secure through duty.
The U.S. has already lost through Bush-Cheney’s policy of torture. We should not make it policy to let torturers get off.
“We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani,” said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. “His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that’s why I did not refer the case” for prosecution. – Washington Post (1.14.09)
President Bush admitted to torturing Khalid Sheik Mohammed on Fox News Sunday:
HUME: Now, the enhanced interrogation techniques, as some call them — torture, as others call them— are being argued over to this hour. Some are saying you never get any good information by rough stuff, and others have said — more than once — that if we hadn’t used these techniques we wouldn’t have had vital information and attacks could have been or would have been carried out on this country. Your view of that.
G.W. BUSH: My view is that the techniques were necessary and are necessary to be used on a rare occasion to get information necessary to protect the American people. One such person who gave us information was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He was the mastermind of the September the 11th, 2001 attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people on our soil.
And I’m in the Oval Office and I am told that we have captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the professionals believe he has information necessary to secure the country. So I ask what tools are available for us to find information from him, and they gave me a list of tools. And I said, are these tools deemed to be legal. And so we got legal opinions before any decision was made. And I think when people study the history of this particular episode they’ll find out we gained good information from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in order to protect our country.
Torture is illegal. It is also a war crime.
The Attorney General of the United States of America should do his job. President Obama must summon the courage to let him. If we don’t, Bush and Cheney might as well surrender their passports, because the world will likely not be as forgiving.
President Gerald Ford did this nation no favors by pardoning Nixon. Barack Obama would do well to look back on history, and though we’re not talking about pardons, not make the mistake of protecting the presidency over the rule of law.
“I’m against a “truth commission” on torture. I’m also against going after people down the chain who followed orders. Torture was deemed legal from the top, with everything falling from there. Taylor Marsh”
I am astonished and dumbfounded!!
I guess we should dig up and apologize to those we hung after WW2 who were “only following orders”?!
Good morning …
If you are not awake yet, you must be living in Alaska …
The National Mall is ALREADY PACKED …
Torture is illegal. It is also a war crime.
And it doesn’t work.
Good morning everyone. Happy Inauguration Day.
I believe that on taking office the incoming President swears to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
I look back at the past 8 years and what I see is a President who not only mangled the Constitution but broke the trust with the American people. He did not preserve, protect and defend the Constitution but chose to act outside the law of the land. If our leaders cannot respect the Constitution and are willing to push it aside for their own purposes the Constitution becomes meaningless and opens the door to lawlessness. As a country we then become no better than those who we have held responsible for crimes committed against others. We did write the rules and are bound by them too.
Bush/Cheney must be held accountable for what they did and I hope that our new AG has the courage, the integrity and the honor to give the American people the truth. Otherwise we can expect the same actions from future administrations and the Constitution will not be worth the paper it’s written on.
I guess we should dig up and apologize to those we hung after WW2 who were “only following orders”?!
secularhumanizinevoluter | 01.20.2009 – 05:42 am | #
This was the argument that the defendants at Nuremberg presented and they were held responsible for the crimes they committed with the rationale that following orders was no excuse for committing the atrocities that they took part in.
Makes sense; but unfortunately common sense and politics are like water and oil, they just don’t mix together very well. And when push comes to shove, politics will trump common sense. So most of this stuff will be dropped into the bin of history.
The things that happened during the Bush presidency: NSA warrantless surveillance controversy; unlawful combatant status; treatment of detainees; among other things were not just “revealed†recently.
So the statement that the “Attorney General of the United States of America should do his job†is akin to closing the fence after the horses got out. Shouldn’t other people in politics and government have done their job?
The following comments from Democratic leadership concerning these issues and impeachment:
Sen. Harry Reid “… a waist of time.â€
Audio here: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/downloads/reidbrown.mp3
Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi
On May 10, 2006 House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) indicated she was not interested in pursuing impeachment and had taken it “off the table”, reiterating this phrase on November 8, 2006, In July 2007, Pelosi stated that she “would probably advocate” impeaching Bush if she were not in the House nor Speaker of the House. [92]
Check Wikipedia footnotes for quotes.
So the question should be asked. Was it politically beneficial not to investigate these abuses of power and not to consider impeachment of the President and Vice President? Did politics trump common sense and the law?
guyski | 01.20.2009 – 06:48 am | #
I hear the argument but unless the American people are given the truth on just how far the previous administration mangled the Constitution then expect it to happen again. We cannot just turn a blind eye to illegal actions. We diminish ourselves as a free and democratic people. Sorry if I sound like a “purist” when I talk about the Constitution and the rule of law but for most of my life I was fed large doses of how our Constitution sets us apart from other countries in the world and is what makes this country strong. Either the Constitution means something and we hold inviolate or we can let our leaders do whatever they want.
Happy Inauguration Day
Happy Inauguration Day
Happy Inauguration Day to you too AG:-) I’ve been watching the action on the Mall. Absolutely amazing! What a change in demeanor. People are actually happy and hopeful regardless of how messed up this country is.
Jane, it is amazing. I don’t remember people feeling like this in my lifetime. It feels good
I just tuned i as they were going to church. I must say I am disappointed that he could have gotten snappier rims on the Caddy.
Audiegrl | 01.20.2009 – 08:53 am | #
I remember one other time, when JFK was elected President and the hope he brought to this country. I was quite young then, a new mother and had dreams of a better and more peaceful world. Now I am looking at another event much like JFK but I am much older. It’s the “zeitgeist” or the “spirit of the times.” I pray that we make the most of it and never let apathy settle in again.
justlen | 01.20.2009 – 08:55 am | #
What would you propose? Red, White and Blue or maybe a picture of Scarlett Johanson?
Jane Austen | 01.20.2009 – 08:57 am | #
Why, Pimpstars, of course. Accept no substitutes.
Jhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt9yl6jmjZQ
justlen | 01.20.2009 – 09:02 am | #
I don’t think there is any hope for you justlen
justlen | 01.20.2009 – 08:55 am | #
What would you propose? Red, White and Blue or maybe a picture of Scarlett Johanson?
Jane Austen | 01.20.2009 – 08:57 am | #
good one :=)
Jane Austen | 01.20.2009 – 08:56 am | #
I was born in 62, so I missed what swept the country then. But from what I heard from my mom, she felt the same way you did
My friend, daughter and I were up until 1AM making Obama logo sugar cookies for the party tonight. So you know we are with the spirit. And, I’m feeling pretty hung over. (from sugar) LOL
It’s still dark on the west coast so bear with me while I get the coffee going…
Greta day in D.C. I counted a gazillion people already.
I guess we should dig up and apologize to those we hung after WW2 who were “only following
orders”?!
secularhumanizinevoluter | 01.20.2009 – 05:42 am | #
just don’t make it like Abu Ghraib where the underlings took the fall for the higher ups.
Audiegrl | 01.20.2009 – 09:08 am | #
I’ve been working on my “hope and change” afghan for my 18 year old granddaughter. Every stitch I put in it is for the hope that her future is bright and full of promise.
catbird seat:
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/58992/thumbs/r-INAUGURATION-huge.jpg
just don’t make it like Abu Ghraib where the underlings took the fall for the higher ups.
GeoT | 01.20.2009 – 09:16 am | #
The investigation should never have started with the underlings. They didn’t do what they did on their own. The orders came from higher up. They just happened to be the weakest link in the chain.
The investigation should never have started with the underlings. They didn’t do what they
did on their own. The orders came from higher up. They just happened to be the weakest link
in the chain.
Jane Austen | 01.20.2009 – 09:20 am | #
If there is an investigation/prosecution I want to see Rumsfeld, Gonzalez et al answering questions.
Fox is actually doing decent job on their coverage so far, although Hannity last night was ridiculous…
If there is an investigation/prosecution I want to see Rumsfeld, Gonzalez et al answering
questions.
GeoT | 01.20.2009 – 09:23 am | #
I don’t know if the Congress would ever have the “testicular fortitude” to prosecute but I believe that the American public has a right to know what went on during the past 8 years. We must hold our leaders accountable for their actions. Otherwise we can never condemn any other country for their illegal actions.
Fox is actually doing decent job on their coverage so far, although Hannity last night was ridiculous…
GeoT | 01.20.2009 – 09:25 am | #
Not surprising that Hannity would be ridiculous but then he’s part of a very small minority at the moment.
Bush Leaves Note For Obama In Oval Office:
“FYI: there were no WMD” (that’s my guess) :=)
http://tinyurl.com/8mvrze
Not surprising that Hannity would be ridiculous but then he’s part of a very small minority
at the moment.
Jane Austen | 01.20.2009 – 09:28 am | #
he’s painted in a corner and can’t even be gracious for the inauguration.
GeoT | 01.20.2009 – 09:28 am | #
Just as long as Bush leaves. The less he is seen the better I’ll feel. Obama has a full plate to clean up after the past 8 years. GWB’s stewardship of America was terrible.
he’s painted in a corner and can’t even be gracious for the inauguration.
GeoT | 01.20.2009 – 09:29 am | #
Anyone who screams, shouts and shuts people up is not credible to me and that is the way I see Hannity and most of the Fox commentators.
GeoT | 01.20.2009 – 09:29 am | #
Don’t forget Glenn Beck’s show started yesterday, so he and Hannity have been double teaming Obama.
i.e. Beck had Sarah Palin on yesterday to comment on the inauguration.
No, I don’t watch Faux, just flip by during commercials.
No, I don’t watch Faux, just flip by during commercials.
Audiegrl | 01.20.2009 – 09:35 am | #
same here, I caught a couple of minutes and that was enough.
goose bump time with this choir.
I think there will be allot of goose bumps today :=)
CNN live stream is pretty good.
secularhumanizinevoluter | 01.20.2009 – 05:42 am | #
I want to focus on the men who said the policy was legal and gave the okay: Bush and Cheney. That doesn’t seem to hard to understand.
CNN live stream is pretty good.
justlen | 01.20.2009 – 09:42 am | #
don’t forget C-span, less static.
bbl. Going to my daughter’s house to watch the swearing in. I plan to have a picture taken with my 2-year old granddaughter as we watch the swearing in for her baby book.
I plan to have a picture taken
with my 2-year old granddaughter as we watch the swearing in for her baby book.
Jane Austen | 01.20.2009 – 09:46 am | #
very nice :=)
I want to focus on the men who said the policy was legal and gave the okay: Bush and Cheney.
That doesn’t seem to hard to understand.
TaylorMarsh
George W Bush looked the American people in the eye and said very clearly “We don’t torture”. He lied about that, was part of the lie (actually, since he was president at the time, he was the lie), and should be held accountable.
I always thought Clinton was impeached in large part because he lied explicitly to the Amercian people during his infamous interview about Lewinsky.
What Bush did was infinitely worse, and the American people should know the complete truth.
I recounted, it’s up to a gazillion and a half people on the mall.
I read somewhere that local DC radio is reporting the Mall is full and they are closing off access.