Secretary of State Hillary Clinton put the emphasis on the environment and climate in her talks with China today, inviting China to join the U.S. in an “ambitious effort to curb greenhouse gases, as she toured an energy-efficient power plant in Beijing.”
Clinton told the Chinese government, “we hope you won’t make the same mistakes we made.”
“When we were industrializing and growing, we didn’t know any better; neither did Europe,” Mrs. Clinton said. “Now we’re smart enough to figure out how to have the right kind of growth.”
The Obama Administration is looking to make climate change the center of a wider and “more vigorous engagement with China.”
The WaPo reports that China and the U.S. agreed today to “begin high-level consultations on combating the global economic crisis and climate change, with China’s poor human-rights record relegated as a lesser priority.”
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton held extensive talks with a panoply of Chinese officials, including President Hu Jintao[...]
Clinton also addressed the economy, saying, “We have every reason to believe that the United States and China will recover and that together we will help to lead the world recovery.”
DipNote has more on Hillary’s visit to China. Throughout her visit to Asia, Clinton has been reshaping diplomacy by “tossing the script.” Before leaving China on Sunday, Clinton plans to attend church, which will make a quiet statement on religious freedom in the country.
Unless we offer technology to China that is cheap and green, I really don’t get the point of all of this.
Our own history is filled with incredible examples of pollution. Anyone every gone to Pittsburgh?
Omigosh, the photos of life in the era of the coal factories is amazing.
This entire discussion with China makes no sense to me, anyway.
Unless we’re actually offering something that works.
Otherwise, it’s just another “shame” talk.
Basically, we’re saying to emerging countries, “You don’t get the same progression we got.”
That’s just such arrogance on our part.
AnninCA Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 12:36 pm
1/10 on the troll scale.
Try harder, you’re slipping. It’s like you didn’t even read the article.
This is OT but it’s well worth going to this link. It’s penny postcards taken from where you grew up. You click on the state and then the county.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~usgenweb/special/ppcs/ppcs.html
justlen Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Right on!!
This is exactly why the President needs to appoint a commission.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/02/20/taguba/index.html
OK, Just……….
I’ll not comment.
And then Taylor Marsh site sinks into oblivion.
We’re talking 5 posts.
You win.
Happy?
hello TM’ers… hope everyone is having a great weekend. I’ve been following Hillary’s travels but generally avoiding talking heads and pundits… the distortion level is sky high.
may I just say… my overall impression? … Hillary kicks ass.
Hi there GeoT. It’s been really quiet today. I just check in here every now and then to see if anyone has posted comments.
“That’s just such arrogance on our part.AnninCA”
Well I agree with you. It is an INCREDIBLE display of ignorance on YOUR part.
This is interesting since most of the economists claim China owns the U.S. (as Ann Coulter would say, “on paper”).
Heard an intriguing concept today to help solve our national financial crisis — Sell Hawaii to Japan, and Alaska to Russia (which would fulfil Palin’s dream of being Czarina of her kingdom LOL)
Heard an intriguing concept today to help solve our national financial crisis — Sell Hawaii to Japan, and Alaska to Russia
pmichael Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 5:58 pm
That’s a good one!
GeoT Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm
may I just say… my overall impression? … Hillary kicks ass.
I’ve read where her aides and the reporters are having quite a time keeping up with her. She’s like the energizer bunny – keeps going and going. I think she enjoys her new job.
“tossing the script.”
Good article. Love this part:
Mrs. Clinton said she was skeptical that these appearances alone would lead to changes in the policies of foreign governments. But by connecting with people on a personal level, she said, she believes she can help mold public opinion, which, in turn, can influence governments.
“President Obama has an extraordinary capacity to do that because of the really positive feelings that he personally engenders,” she said. “To a lesser degree, I have some of the same capacity.”
# lynnette Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 6:26 pm
GeoT Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm
may I just say… my overall impression? … Hillary kicks ass.
I’ve read where her aides and the reporters are having quite a time keeping up with her. She’s like the energizer bunny – keeps going and going. I think she enjoys her new job.
______
I think she knows she has a chance to put a substantial mark on history and being at the forefront has stoked her fires. It’s exiting for us all. Or maybe I should just speak for myself.
pmMichael: spent the days seeding my flower beds with Golden Poppy’s and a mix of other wild flowers… the spring is about to explode. Oh and some Purple Lavender for the front porch
and a few Cala Lily’s per the wife.
# lynnette Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 6:45 pm
“President Obama has an extraordinary capacity to do that because of the really positive feelings that he personally engenders,” she said. “To a lesser degree, I have some of the same capacity.”
____
she’s being modest (a good trait)…she’s got it and then some..
GeoT
“the spring is about to explode”
I am so jealous. We’re supposed to get snow tomorrow. I’m anxiously awaiting my first spring here.
I just read a disturbing article in Salon. It seems that Obama is taking the same opinion that the Bush admin did on Bagram. Even though the Supreme Court ruled that the detainees in Gitmo had a right to a trial by our courts here. Different in Bagram I guess. I sent him an email and I’m going to call the comment line on Monday.
pmMichael: spent the days seeding my flower beds with Golden Poppy’s and a mix of other wild flowers… the spring is about to explode. Oh and some Purple Lavender for the front porch and a few Cala Lily’s per the wife.
GeoT, check out that background
http://www.gardengateoakdale.com/
Betsy
I just put up a link to Joan Walsh’s piece on Salon (I assume that’s the article you read), in the thread above.
Interesting, BTW —
Links in TM’s chatroom used to open in a new window.
Wonder if she’s aware this is no longer the case.
PamelaLeavey Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 7:03 pm
GeoT
“the spring is about to explode”
I am so jealous. We’re supposed to get snow tomorrow. I’m anxiously awaiting my first spring here.
We received a foot of snow yesterday on top of what we already have. Some areas nearby got 3 feet. Hubby and son went out snowmobiling today.
Lynnette
Well I don’t feel so bad now…
It’s my first winter back in snow country in almost 19 years though. I just can’t wait for Spring at this point.
Lynnette
Hmmm… I just checked the weather here. Not sure where you are but I wonder if it’s heading my way, what was supposed to be about 6 inches tomorrow has been upped to 12 – 18 in some areas. Thankfully we are on the water (surrounded by water) and hopefully it won’t be as heavy here.
PamelaLeavey Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Lynnette
Well I don’t feel so bad now…
It’s my first winter back in snow country in almost 19 years though. I just can’t wait for Spring at this point.
Anything to make you feel better, Pamela. LOL. Actually, our last few winters have been very mild. Not this year, however.
We are in Central New York (upstate). We get lots of lake effect snow off of Lake Ontario.
My husband says we live in the armpit of the Earth.
Lynnette
I have heard this has been a harder winter up here than in the past few. Today was beautiful, very sunny. The snow was glistening and reflecting the colors of the sky and the water in the bay and the river were a lovely deep blue.
Oh… and I thought of Betsy when I saw an eagle this afternoon.
Lynnette
Very pretty up there. My daughter calls where we moved to in Maine “the end of the middle of nowhere.” We’re in the easternmost “city” on the coast.
It won’t be long, now, Pamela. Just a few weeks. It was sunny here today, too.
Pamela,
Are you near Bar Harbor by any chance? Was there 20 years ago and Acadia National Park. Absolutely gorgeous country. Would like to go again.
I’ve actually adapted better than I thought I would Lynnette. I’ll welcome the spring, which I hear is lovely here and then summer!
We’re about 2 1/2 hours north of Bar Harbor in Eastport. The whole coast of Maine is beautiful. We used to go camping in the Bar Harbor area when I was a kid. That’s when I first fell in love with Maine.
The Maine coast and all the towns along the way are very beautiful. Hey, Pamela, you might be near the Bushes! You can say hello from all of us. LOL. Have to go. Goodnight all.
Lynnette
Thankfully I am hours north of the Bushes — Not far from FDR’s place on Campobello Island.
apologies and “warm wishes” to those still in the grip of winter… I am just excited about be able to do some gardening and landscaping in our new place Central California cost)… and mother nature is providing plenty of rain and some warm days in between storms.. that’s a potent formula
GeoT, check out that background
http://www.gardengateoakdale.com/
_____
those bonsai caught my eye… I may be ordering from them, thanks.
# lynnette Says:
February 21st, 2009 at 8:16 pm
The Maine coast and all the towns along the way are very beautiful. Hey, Pamela, you might be near the Bushes! You can say hello from all of us. LOL. Have to go. Goodnight all.
______
spent a couple of hours driving around the town of Kennebunk and to the beach… it was very foggy day but still beautiful
Wow, the troll comment right off the bat — no explanation necessary. AnninCA is absolutely right. Developing countries are not going to stop industrializing (and, hence, polluting) because Europe and the United States suddenly found religion on the environment. Unless we give China etc. incentive to go green, they are going to tell us where to put all our talk about climate change.
ogenec says:
22 February 2009 at 4:10 pm
______
you’re blinded by not wanting to alienate one of the few posters you can use to push your “clear thinking views” You’ve lost all perspective…
Ann called China an “emerging country”
let’s start there… they have done emerged… next: if the Chinese government had a soul or even cared about its own people they would flip the formula of what comes first? people or progress… development or rape and poisoning of the once upon a time thriving agricultural system. Let them find their own moral ground… I suggest Love Canal Canton style..
GeoT, what is this uncontrollable urge you have to divine people’s motives??? Yes, China is not in the same category as many other “developing” countries, but it still is growing (i.e., emerging) at a fantastic clip. And so you still have the dilemma of environmental conservation versus economic growth.
As I read it, Ann was saying that (1) all industrialized countries pollute as a necessary component to their industrialization, (2) developing countries view the U.S.’ insistence on environmental protection as arrogant (and anti-competitive) and (3) as a result, we have to give developing countries incentives to come on board; we can’t just exhort them to.
Based on my experiences growing up in a developing country, Ann’s absolutely correct. But I’d love to hear other perspectives, which is why a discussion would have been nice. But, no, we get the troll word thrown around again. Not one word as to why she’s wrong.
So you’ve got it exactly backwards, my man. I’m not “pushing” views here. To the contrary, I love to hear opposing views (helps refine my thinking). The people “pushing” stuff here are the folks who (1) accuse others of being trolls, (2) use personal invective when a reasoned counter-argument will do, and (3) are quick to assign motives based on stereotypes or other tropes.
So it’s really ironic to hear you accuse me of losing perspective. If you disagree with something I say, I would love to hear why. But please check the name-calling and the mind-reading at the door. Thanks.
ogenec says:
22 February 2009 at 9:23 pm
GeoT, what is this uncontrollable urge you have to divine people’s motives??
_____
It’s a gift…. You’re the one chastising those who challenge the hit and run posts by AnninCA, so take the heat. If she would engage in discussion that would be one thing but she is only interested in making her (often disjointed and sometimes offensive) points and then, bye-bye. I have no tolerance for that. I know what her agenda is, she is pure PUMA, check her ravings at Huffington Post sometime.
The only thing I check at the door is any abidance for people who pretend to be reasonable while actually pushing a very specific agenda, and in Ann’s case it’s all about who won and who SHOULD have won. That’s my opinion, leave me to it. I don’t interact with Ann anymore because it is supremely counterproductive. An occasional borderline “valid” opinion doesn’t crowd out the knee deep BS that’s already been put out.
Why do I have to divine people’s motives?? Why do you have to play mighty mouse and say things like:
“Wow, the troll comment right off the bat — no explanation necessary. AnninCA is absolutely right….”
that sounds a bit judgmental to me, especially when you’re interjecting yourself into an ongoing situation you really have no part of.
GeoT says:
23 February 2009 at 9:22 am
If she would engage in discussion that would be one thing but she is only interested in making her (often disjointed and sometimes offensive) points and then, bye-bye. I have no tolerance for that.
But’s that’s precisely my point — wasn’t she trying to engage in discussion? Where was the offensive comment in her post? I don’t deny she’s said some off-the-wall stuff in the past; no doubt, she will do so again. But there was nothing “PUMA-esque” about this specific comment. At least, none that I could tell. I guess my over-arching point is that the occasional substantive opinion is worthy of a similar response, no matter who the poster is. Making a substantive comment, only to be greeted with the derisive “Troll!!,” is very disconcerting. It chills debate. Which I would think is the last thing we should want from a political blog. But perhaps I am mistaken.
By way of contrast, someone came in yesterday and did a drive-by comment about Obama. I nearly commented, but decided to leave it alone. You commented, and I was happy you did. Or another example: Ann’s own comments about Clinton’s foreign trip being symbolic and utterly beneath her. Again, pushing the theme of Obama as Geppetto and Clinton as Pinocchio. Utterly absurd, and you didn’t hear a peep from me.
Her comment above is different. I read it as a substantive critique of U.S. environmental policy, with no mention of Clinton, Obama, or anyone else. That’s why I was shocked at the response. By the way, I still haven’t word one as to how’s she’s wrong. But at least I explained the basis for the “Wow!” comment, and my agreement with her. And I managed to do it without resorting to insults.
As to that last point, I’m going to ask you one last time to cease the name-calling. I can “take the heat” – if that is what you call it – but I don’t like being insulted. Consistent with my larger point about Ann, I have maintained a respectful tone in my exchanges with you. One more “Mighty Mouse” or similar comment, however, and I will take the tongue limiter off. And when I do, it will not be pretty. I have some facility for diving motives as well.
ogenec says:
23 February 2009 at 11:14 am
One more “Mighty Mouse” or similar comment, however, and I will take the tongue limiter off. And when I do, it will not be pretty. I have some facility for diving motives as well.
_____
diving motives? I wont touch that one.. tell you what, I’ll park you next to AnninCA and that way there will be no chance of the horror of your liberated “tongue limiter”…
but one last time: she doesn’t engage in discussions she makes HER points and disappears… keep an eye out. I have.
GeoT says:
23 February 2009 at 1:50 pm
_________________
That’s a smart boy. I can’t spell, but I get my point across.
ogenec says:
23 February 2009 at 3:05 pm
GeoT says:
23 February 2009 at 1:50 pm
_________________
That’s a smart boy. I can’t spell, but I get my point across.
_____
That’s Mr. Boy to you….the end.
That’s Mr. Boy to you….the end.
No, it’s Miss Boy. Because with your juvenile insults and “cool kids” attitude, it’s clear you’re channeling your inner cheerleader. Man the f**k up — assuming your dumb ass knows how — and stop being such a teacher’s pet. It’s disgusting.
ogenec says:
23 February 2009 at 5:05 pm
______
sir, I am a 52 year old, mature, Male adult. You think calling me Miss is the worst possible insult? Women may have something to say about that. And you claim I am an Obama “cheelrleader”? Again, this shows you have only a cursory involvement in what goes on here. I am anything but a cheerleader although there is much to appreciate and applaud. I see valid criticism all the time and I acknowledge it. But not for something like say torture, which you advocated for. So I am neither a cheerleader nor a crazed PUMA hater, I react to each item as it comes along and try to be clear headed.
Now, you said to called me:
“you’re channeling your inner cheerleader. Man the f**k up — assuming your dumb ass knows how — and stop being such a teacher’s pet. It’s disgusting.”
I never called YOU anything… the worst I said was “stop playing Mighty Mouse”… kind of tepid. and not a direct insult such as you unleashed.
When I hear “Man Up”—- I begin to consider the source.
How many times do you need to say “the end?” I don’t care how old you are. But you’re far from mature. The cheerleader reference had nothing to do with Obama. It had to do with your high school antics. Let me describe.
I know your type, GeoT. Very well. Few real friends, a total nerd in high school and college, with few social skills to speak of. But, thanks to the wonders of the Internet, you have a second chance at a social life, albeit anonymously and only in the virtual world. And now you want to enforce a social code by making this blog exclusive to people who think like you.
You think picking on other posters is cool? Does insulting posters who don’t think as you do make you feel more virile? And when you run Ann and others off, doesn’t that just make you feel like…. you know, the head cheerleader??? Gimme a B… Gimme an I… Gimme a T… Gimme a C…
I try to conduct myself online as I would in the real world. And if I saw someone bullying another in the real world, I would jump to their defense. Whether they shared my beliefs or not. That’s all I was doing here. I asked only that Ann not be insulted every time she posted.
Wasn’t much of an ask, I thought. But you started imputing all kinds of crazy motives to me. And when I specifically asked (again) that you refrain from insulting me, you insulted me yet again. And told me to butt out. And jeered that I should take the heat.
So your punk ass needs to take THIS heat. I’m done being polite with you. You’re stomping all over this blog like some latter-day Charles Atlas. Shunning people left and right. But, in reality, you’re just the 98-pound weakling who gets the sand kicked in his face. Know how I know? I got the x-ray glasses from the same comics you read. And I can see right through you, little man.
More cheerleader proof — you are a simplistic moron. You proved it with the statement that I support torture. Where’s the support for that statement? It’s a total lie, and you know it. Or maybe you don’t. Because in your world, there is only white and black, no grey. So Ann is a PUMA, and by definition, nothing she says has any merit. Likewise, ogenec supports torture, so he too must be thrown off the island. Again, just like a ditzy cheerleader. Oh, GeoT, please please let me sit at your table with all the other cool kids!!!!
I read Animal Farm when I was just a little kid, so I understand how easy it is for the newly-liberated to themselves become tyrants. I will tell you what nobody else will — you are fast becoming the Napoleon of this blog. And that’s not a compliment. Consider it a tepid insult — the kind of passive-aggresive comment you specialize in.
Here’s what’s not tepid. This had better be your last response to me, you ignorant twit. I’ve pulled your card, as we say in the ‘hood, and it will just get worse from here. And if you really want to “man up,” I’ll decloak and reveal who and where I am. And we can take this outside. I’m tired of nerdy-ass punks pretending to be Charles Atlas just because they have a keyboard and an Internet connection.
For your own sake, leave me alone and go back to sucking TM’s toes.