I’ve taken to task everyone from Juan Cole to Newsweek for talking about Obama’s Afghanistan strategy as being his potential Vietnam (it’s not). But with Obama administration’s PR crisis on economics, there are new talking points springing forth, and, no, I’m not talking about the one that says Tim Geithner should go. Though having the likes of Sen. Richard Shelby, who recently let his inner stupid loose and joined the Obama birth certificate tin foil hat brigade, leading that crowd is a political gift from the gods.
In fact, I was talking to someone on Friday saying that I was glad the drumbeat for Geithner to resign had subsided, which was the wrong way to state it. Actually, many people are talking about it. The truth and what I meant was that President Obama cannot afford to fire Geithner (though he should have let him go over his tax issue at the beginning). But now is simply too late, so if the firing squad comes after Geithner the only one they’ll hit at this point is President Obama (with plenty left over for the Democratic Party). He knows this, which is why he’s reported to say Geithner’s staying on “60 Minutes.” Time will tell if that holds, but if it doesn’t that noise you’ll hear is Mitt Romney’s rallying cry.
Sen. Judd Gregg laid the groundwork today:
“The practical implications of this is bankruptcy for the United States,” Gregg said of the Obama’s administration’s recently released budget blueprint. “There’s no other way around it. If we maintain the proposals that are in this budget over the ten-year period that this budget covers, this country will go bankrupt. People will not buy our debt, our dollar will become devalued. It is a very severe situation.”
Some even think the way the Obama administration, but specifically the President himself, has handled the whole mess has reached the tipping point and is reminiscent of something else: Bush’s ineptitude to respond to the public’s anger after Katrina. No doubt we’re in an economic category 6, but comparing Obama to Bush? Wow. Just wow.
Frank Rich, not exactly a wingnut, today in Has a ‘Katrina Moment’ Arrived? The first paragraph:
A CHARMING visit with Jay Leno won’t fix it. A 90 percent tax on bankers’ bonuses won’t fix it. Firing Timothy Geithner won’t fix it. Unless and until Barack Obama addresses the full depth of Americans’ anger with his full arsenal of policy smarts and political gifts, his presidency and, worse, our economy will be paralyzed. It would be foolish to dismiss as hyperbole the stark warning delivered by Paulette Altmaier of Cupertino, Calif., in a letter to the editor published by The Times last week: “President Obama may not realize it yet, but his Katrina moment has arrived.” [...]
Obama inherited this mess, but it’s the job he’s got. If he doesn’t succeed, as Rich rightly describes, it will be a political tragedy that will land us in far less capable hands, the Republicans. A group of individual corporatists who have left this country’s economic woes to Democratic presidential successors in many times of crisis. See Reagan and Bush 41, followed by the Clinton Democratic clean up; which was then followed by George W. Bush’s drunken stupor of spending, tax cuts and warriorism that now must be cleaned up by his Democratic successor. The pile dumped on Obama’s doorstep, however, is an accumulation of economic deregulation going back to Reagan, and Wall Street pimping and propping up that includes the Clinton era (See Larry Summers), which has finally collapsed in on itself.
The trouble is that President Obama’s response so far is not only corporatist, but employs the insiders who are in the job of busting out their friends. Rich, again:
… The “dirty little secret,” Obama told Leno on Thursday, is that “most of the stuff that got us into trouble was perfectly legal.” An even dirtier secret is that a prime mover in keeping that stuff legal was Summers, who helped torpedo the regulation of derivatives while in the Clinton administration. His mentor Robert Rubin, no less, wrote in his 2003 memoir that Summers underestimated how the risk of derivatives might multiply “under extraordinary circumstances.”
Given that Summers worked for a secretive hedge fund, D. E. Shaw, after he was pushed out of Harvard’s presidency at the bubble’s height, you have to wonder how he can now sell the administration’s plan for buying up toxic assets with the help of hedge funds. It will look like another giveaway to his own insiders’ club. As for Geithner, people might take him more seriously if he gave a credible account of why, while at the New York Fed, he and the Goldman alumnus Hank Paulson let Lehman Brothers fail but saved the Goldman-trading ally A.I.G. …
I know I won’t be the only one holding my breath as Mr. Geithner unveils his full plan tomorrow.
Because not only does the country need Mr. Obama to succeed, but the hopes of our Democratic ideals demand it. Otherwise we will once again be tossed back into right-wing darkness missing a chance in a generation to prove that Democratic policies are the answer because government does have a place in the lives of the citizenry, and it’s not to only save the big shots, but also to hold them accountable.
Obama’s success would leave conservatives in the wilderness long enough so we could actually turn this thing around and undo the outrageous economic and foreign policy carnage inherited from the “Katrina moment” after moment administration of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, not to mention the congressional incompetence of the Republicans who led us into this mess in the first place.
Now go read Matt Taibi in Rolling Stone.
The real question from here is whether the Obama administration is going to move to bring the financial system back to a place where sanity is restored and the general public can have a say in things or whether the new financial bureaucracy will remain obscure, secretive and hopelessly complex. It might not bode well that Geithner, Obama’s Treasury secretary, is one of the architects of the Paulson bailouts; as chief of the New York Fed, he helped orchestrate the Goldman-friendly AIG bailout and the secretive Maiden Lane facilities used to funnel funds to the dying company. Neither did it look good when Geithner — himself a protégé of notorious Goldman alum John Thain, the Merrill Lynch chief who paid out billions in bonuses after the state spent billions bailing out his firm — picked a former Goldman lobbyist named Mark Patterson to be his top aide.
TM NOTE: The video in this post is from January 2009. Rep. Alan Grayson has gotten a lot of attention because of his unbridled bluntness during this fiasco, which is again spotlighted in the Washington Post today.
With all due respect to Mr. Rich, I think the comparison to Katrina was disrespectful to the victims and beyond hyperbole. There is a diary on the rec list at Kos with photos of what Katrina was. I won’t link to it because its very graphic. Who will be the first talking head or pundit to define what Obama’s 9/11 is?
Sad.
I had something altogether prepared to write about today (on Iraq, then Pakistan), but when I read Rich’s column it was so shocking it changed everything. The letter to the editor from Cupertino, CA. is stunning, which was obviously part of the impetus for his column. That’s the real jolt and something worth noting.
I have not read the full Frank Rich article but I just came here from reading Taibbi’s article. Both get to my basic mistrust of Obama.
It is like he is of two minds about America. His budget reflects policy that truely “gets” what is important to focus on and invest in to get our country healthy and able to move into the 21st century together.
On the other hand the handing of the bank crisis reflects a policy that was bought and paid for by a very elite few and will turn the rest of us and our children into serfs.
Warren Buffett called it an “economic Pearl Harbor”. Maybe that is a better comparison. We did not as a country have two guys ie. Geithner and Summers handling entering into WWII.How can it be that Treasury has no staff? Obama is not looking competent. I expected much better.
I agree its worth noting, but if I were Mr. Rich, I would have pointed out that No, this isn’t like Katrina. Katrina happened because of criminal negligence, on the part of the Bush administration.
I decided this morning that I can no longer watch the Sunday shows. Arnold summed it up for me when he told David Gregory something like “I understand its your job to be negative”. That’s the crux for me, it shouldn’t be Gregory’s job to be negative, it should be to facilitate informed discussion.
Perhaps I am just sensitive today. I was at my friends house yesterday, that is just up the hill from the scene of the 4 Oakland PD officers that were shot. It was frightening, helicopters and police everywhere. The whole area was blocked off. That’s real life for people.
I stopped watching local news a couple years ago because I didn’t think I was getting an accurate picture of what was going on in the country. At this point, I think I’m going to stop watching national news, because the cable talking heads seem to be missing the point of what’s happening at a local level.
maxadog says:
22 March 2009 at 3:32 pm
I decided this morning that I can no longer watch the Sunday shows. Arnold summed it up for me when he told David Gregory something like “I understand its your job to be negative”.
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I’m with you.
I’m looking into the real world for how the economy is doing, screw the talking heads, they get paid to say controversial things. I can see from the comments here and elsewhere that there is a pent up blame game about to be unleashed. (“my basic (preexisting) mistrust of Obama”) If the economy goes further south Obama will be tattooed a failure. The problem? If things get better (which they absolutely are in my opinion) he won’t be given any credit. It will be the “natural cycle in the markets” or some such nonsense.
p.s. Bless the families of the Oakland P.D.
its not just rich-as poltico notes 4 nyt columnists today went after obamakrugamna nd friedman with sevre critiques on policy. sun talk shows are good for one thing-they show how disconected our leaders are from the people. half the time their solutions make no sense. the things the peopel need like single payer healthcare care etc are dumped as not serious. when summers said that the aig bonuses couldnt be rescinded as they were contracctual i nearly threw out my tv. tell that to workers at gm right now. i fear summers/giethner will be obama’s rumsfeld.
Sorry Geo but you know I have always had a hard time buying into Obama completely. I would love to see him succeed on his budget and I will write letters and call elected officials in support of it.
What I cannot square is what is going on with the bailouts and the Feds. At some point in time we are going have to own up to our debt as a nation. It is one thing if the debt is for expanding the safety net,rebuilding our infrastructure and developing forward looking policies. It is quite another if it goes to prop up chosen winners.
We all live in different parts of the country and so what we see on the ground is different. Our pantry’s are running out of food,unemployment is 8.1, whole classes of jobs have left,the contraction has had a big impact on both my daughter’s job and her husband’s. I am so worried for their future.
Obama has not proven to me that he is wholly on the people’s side. He is as Rich says charming and has a good public skills but we need more than that.For starters we need the transparency he campaigned on…
BTW I have said many times I am open to convincing and will absolutely give him credit if he succeeds. I don’t have a pent up need to blame at all. I have a pent up fear that my original instincts were correct.
You know I worked for him even though I had misgivings so don’t go pidgeon holing me with some puma thinking.
maxadog says:
22 March 2009 at 3:05 pm
I understand your feelings about the comparison. But, I reread Rich’s column 3 times and I don’t perceive it indicating that the Katrina horror is in any way equivalent to the economic meltdown.
The letter to the editor from Cupertino does not make that comparison either. The letter writer is referencing that the public sat in stunning horror seeing the human devastation wrought by Katrina and came to see the true vacancy of the Bush administration. I see the comparison as what will happen to Obama’s ability to lead if the public sees his handling of the economy as equally vacant.
I saw a rerun of an Without a Trace episode a couple days ago that was about Katrina. The program was a heartbreaking reminder of what those desperate victims faced and experienced. I had seen it previously, but nonetheless, I sat in my chair with tears pouring. It reminded me of the collective feeling I think many of us felt at seeing Bush in “theatre” mode and again the realization of his vacuous leadership.
Perhaps the letter writer saw it too and was ripped raw again as I was.
http://tinyurl.com/cbskq5
GeoT
None of us want Obama to fail in this. I don’t even think Limbaugh does – he’s just theatre too. There are those of us who were concerned that Obama was a bit more style than substance and perhaps not prepared for the position he sought. So far he’s got all the style points. But we have to have him win this one for us all. The economic decisions and his leadership on the economy are worrisome to me.
But I can tell you, I pray for him, his family and his administration every single day. So does my 5 year old grandson – we have a quite prayer time when we get home from school.
Lake Lady says:
22 March 2009 at 5:10 pm
Sorry Geo but you know I have always had a hard time buying into Obama completely.
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I don’t “buy into” Obama either. I take each issue on it’s own merits. Some he’s done well on others not so well. It’s the “basic mistrust of Obama” you describe that has me puzzled…
Lake Lady says:
22 March 2009 at 5:16 pm
I have a pent up fear that my original instincts were correct.
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I don’t know what an adequate time frame is to allow the policies to work is but I’m sure it’s not 2 months into inheriting a severe recession coupled with a banking crisis. The system has to gain equilibrium before the regulations can be revamped. One thing at a time. People are expecting miracles when it’s hard work and time that will make the difference. That’s how I see it. I just don’t get “Oh he can’t handle it, he’s not up top the job” How can anyone tell? The programs haven’t had a chance to take hold.
Lake Lady says:
22 March 2009 at 5:16 pm
don’t go pidgeon holing me with some puma thinking
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I would never do that djjl banned the
“P-word” yesterday
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 5:46 pm
I don’t know what an adequate time frame is to allow the policies to work is but I’m sure it’s not 2 months into inheriting a severe recession coupled with a banking crisis.
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I agree. 60 days to deal with a global recession and banking crisis is no where near adequate time.
It’s the many of the same people saying that Bush couldn’t have been responsible for not heeding the warnings about 9/11 because he had only been in office 8 months that are now saying Obama is an abject failure. It’s ridiculous.
Djjl – I understand what you are saying, but I think that Katrina is one of those things we should hold in reverence and not as a toss away comparison to unpopular policy. It should get added to list along with the Holocaust, 9/11, internment camps, civil rights, and what we did to the native americans, among other things.
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 5:30 pm
The economic decisions and his leadership on the economy are worrisome to me.
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You know, I get that djjl. But I also believe that if it were McCain or Hillary in the hot seat right now they would be struggling as well because the situation was so dire to begin with (before he took office) and the solutions (potential solutions) are difficult and subject to constant scrutiny and a bizarre “instant results” mania.
maxadog says:
22 March 2009 at 5:57 pm
Read what I wrote again maxadog. It is not a comparison to Katrina. It’s a comment that wonders if further economic messiness doesn’t turn into Obama’s “aha” moment as Bush’s handling of Katrina was his ‘aha” moment from the public. One from which he never recovered.
The article and letter are not suggesting any equivalency – they are suggesting that there may be an equivalency in how the public comes to view the president
Have to add William Greider to the widening list in this piece from WaPo http://tinyurl.com/cxjt37
“Too big to fail” has to be used now to describe the United States itself and the future prospects of the national/global economies, not just a “bank”. The project’s a survival imperative. Hopefully what we’re seeing is a “wake up and smelt the coffee” moment of chattering classes. Now it’s a question of can it wind it’s own magic up the food-chain without wrecking too much panic and destruction.
Then there’s a column that had an odd effect upon me and wrote this to a friend sending the link of it:
“Krugman used the word Despair yesterday, Frank Rich quoted a letter about a “Katrina Moment”, the sh*te’s climbed the food chain and well on it’s way to “engulfing”, “consuming”, “discrediting” etc Obama’s Administration. I don’t know WHERE the hell Tom Friedman’s thinking cap got lost these last few weeks, maybe he’s got a book deadlin or something? (really hope it’s something because he’s not THINKING) but anyway he wrote the most unhelpful thing I’ve read from in him a very long time: There are only children in charge, we have to trust them. I sat a bit dumbfounded reading it. Then I read this. It caught a good expression of what I’ve begun feeling, a kind of intermittent terror at the mounting willful surreality.”
Anyhow it’s a Kathleen Parker column, Our Foundering Father: http://tinyurl.com/cos8ux
So far it all has the air of “It’s not the Tsar but his evil advisors” but that goes on too long it still doesn’t end well for the Tsar either.
Djjl – Yes, I see that, but again, I think its irresponsible journalism and anyone who thinks that 60 days in, Obama is on the brink of being labeled a failure and won’t be able to recover is going to have a very long 4 years.
I give receptionists that I hire more time to learn names and how to work the phones.
Too much at once. At least, I think that’s the reason for the backlash. The banking plan needed to be the core focus. The stimulus bill was rushed through on threats of dire depression-era days. That was actually the final straw for a lot of moderates.
Then, here comes the budget, based on false numbers that any child could figure it out.
That was the tipping point.
AIG bonus fibs were just the excuse to unleash.
Obama’s explanations have been very campaign-like, not real explanations. Geithner is really not very good at talking.
There IS a nice piece today on Huff that actually explains the next phase of the banking plan. (Much clearer, btw, than Krugman’s piece was.)
It’s a Q&A.
GeoT – I desperately hope your optimism is warranted…but I have big time reservations. I don’t think the economy has seen the bottom yet. One area that I don’t think has fully played out yet is the housing refinancing money. For the last several years, with housing values soaring, many people refinanced and took out money and spent it like it was income. Put aside the problem that they can’t pay their mortgages now and will be forclosed on and that will further bring down the value of their neighbors homes. For a moment just focus on the 20,000 or 40,000 or 50,000 that people were putting into the economy – buying new kitchens, cars, clothes, vacations… that money is not going to happen this year, probably not going to happen again for a long time. That money wasn’t income it was phantom money. All the realtors, restaurants, home contractors, car dealers …who lived off of that money have not felt the worst of it. That will trigger higher unemployment numbers and inflation is just around the corner.
This is the stuff that keeps me up at night.
AnninCA says:
22 March 2009 at 6:14 pm
you nailed it, nailed it home.
I am willing to give him time and I understand that some of his decisions are going to take time,like the stimulus. Geo it dosen’t worry you just a little …all these trillions flying out the door?
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 6:03 pm
Read what I wrote again maxadog. It is not a comparison to Katrina.
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What happened with 9/11 is Bush used it as a subtext for everything he was pushing on the country, it cheapened the symbolism of an historically tragic event. 9/11 got tossed in with WMD and Saddam Hussein. Don’t let the same thing happen with Katrina, there are other ways to make the same point.
Well, one thing is nice for a real change. At least, we’re able to see the policies beneath the rhetoric, so the op ed pieces are refreshingly targeted. *haha
I was very weary of the superficial criticisms based on guessing what was happening.
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 6:21 pm
__________
Exactly! We all remember Mr. Rudy 9/11 Guiliani, who tried to win the republican nomination off the back of this tragedy.
If Mr. Rich was trying to imply an “ah-ha moment”, then friggin say that. Not everything need rhetorical flurish.
Lake Lady says:
22 March 2009 at 6:21 pm
I am willing to give him time and I understand that some of his decisions are going to take time,like the stimulus. Geo it dosen’t worry you just a little …all these trillions flying out the door?
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LL:
It ain’t a great situation but something BIG had to be done. But “flying out the door” is a misnomer. We own 80% of AIG now. There is a good chance our “bailout” of AIG will actually return a profit to the treasury. Similar to what happened with The Resolution Trust Corporation in the 80′s it MADE a profit. We are taking equity stakes in these companies. The stimulus money is money (mostly) for main street. Projects are starting already in my hometown here in California. The eager doom-and-gloomers posting here have a predefined agenda, believe me.
maxadog says:
22 March 2009 at 6:26 pm
Maxadog – laser like focus on one phrase – Rome burning – help.
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 6:17 pm
GeoT – I desperately hope your optimism is warranted…but I have big time reservations.
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I 100% get the concerns.
I’m obviously in the minority in how I read the indicators. For me the question is have things bottomed and are the rebounding? I’m in California, 10% unemployment etc. Housing prices down about 50%. I read in my local paper this week that there are multiple offers on houses again and that things SEEM to be turning around. I know it’s not the same everywhere.
“
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 6:17 pm
I meant to add that with what the Fed did this week 30 year 4% fixed mortgages are possible and that would mean people could re-fi down to an affordable payment, forget that cash out nonsense. You’re right on the money about people using equity like a broken piggy-bank. That kind of mentality has to end.
The “A-ha” moment has to be the realization that the Recession and the Financial Crisis are, while mutually exacerbating, are NOT mutually causal. The Recession, like many, had as it’s basic cause a readjustment of the economy to a wild spike in the cost of energy. The Financial crisis is a failure of the entire sector, of the mechanisms of oversight and activity. Fixing one will not fix the other, though letting one fester will worsen the other.
The Stimulus was a way to do immediate direct spending to begin to soften the impact of recession. Government spending is direct it doesn’t rely upon the financial sector. But softening the impact or ending the recession cannot fix the collapse of the financial sector. Is there only one way to fix a problem? No. Is there a scale of effectiveness in differing strategies to fix a problem? Of course there is.
Is the Geithner plan a plastering over? a strategy of more of the same? is it inadequate? is it only a short term plug that will pop out some time to soon in the future? is it the decisive repair necessary?
The rational, responsible jury of minds I trust (there are still some in the MSM) are finally getting a hearing on their weighing in.
Well, some of you folks read things differently than I do. I read absolutely NO equating the economy with Katrina. If it’s an “aha” moment why didn’t Rich just say that – he did. That is the entire thrust of his column. He simply made reference to a letter to the editor:
“To the Editor:
President Obama may not realize it yet, but his Katrina moment has arrived.
This is a defining moment for his presidency, and how he responds will determine the trajectory of his term. He needs to deal with the excesses within the financial industry with the same toughness and conviction that President Ronald Reagan brought to bear during the air traffic controllers’ strike. To date, he is sorely wanting.
We are not interested in the level of outrage the administration is feeling, but in the effectiveness of its response. So far, it has come across as hapless and completely ineffectual. This Obama voter would like to be spared the speeches and the posturing on the Sunday morning shows — action is what is needed.
Paulette Altmaier
Cupertino, Calif., March 17, 2009″
There is no doing anything more than saying that Obama’s response may be the defining moment of his presidency as far as the public is concerned.
My concern isn’t the banking plan, frankly. I do think the toxic assets that brought us to our knees can be held and sold off at a profit. My concern is what Bill Clinton said made just too much sense to me. He was asked about all the investment in real estate, and he said: “Well, remember, these guys are investors and looking for somewhere to put the money. That’s where it went.”
Yes, and the same problem will exist after the toxic assets are absorbed. Where is the investment going to go? We’ve maxed out as a consumer country. We’re no longer competitive in the manufacturing sector.
So I see a long-term slow-growth period, which means that the current ambitions may, indeed, bankrupt us. Spending our way into bankruptcy really could be the end point.
That’s worth thinking over slowly. This rush-rush stuff needs to stop.
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 6:45 pm
Well, some of you folks read things differently than I do. I read absolutely NO equating the economy with Katrina
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It’s the use of Katrina as a casual metaphor that I object to djjl. Especially since the whole story of Katrina has yet to be told. The writer should call it “Obama’s Waterloo” or whatever. You get what I’m saying right?
That’s how I read it, dj…..I thought it was a bit of an exaggeration.
All Geithner needs are some signs that the stimulus is hitting the streets, unemployment stabilizes, or some indicators come up….and watch the optimism return.
Americans just aren’t going to roll over and die without quite a few of these crisis moments. It’s not in our nature.
Obama isn’t my choice of a president, bit of a goof to me….but his “handling” of this isn’t the key. It’s the actual policies.
They’ll either work….or not.
Djjl – We will have to agree to disagree. My reading comprehension is pretty good, I did very well on my SAT’s. I think that references to Katrina, et al, should not be used, by both Rich and Ms. Altmaier.
If there are people that think that Obama doesn’t get that the economy will define his presidency, then they aren’t listening to him. He had said over and over that if he doesn’t get it right, he’ll be a one and done president.
have to throw this in for some comic (sort of) relief:
O’Reilly: If Cheney Had An “Assassination Squad” Seymour Hersh Would Be Dead
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/22/oreilly-cheney-hersh/
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 6:45 pm
He simply made reference to a letter to the editor:
___
but he also made it the title of the entire article, so I’m sticking with my conclusion
Programming note – Obama will be on 60 Minutes and is doing a prime time presser on Tuesday.
I look forward to hearing what he has to say.
I could tell you now, if you like.
Jesus, all of a sudden everyone is an economist.
“I decided this morning that I can no longer watch the Sunday shows. Arnold summed it up for me when he told David Gregory something like “I understand its your job to be negative”. That’s the crux for me, it shouldn’t be Gregory’s job to be negative, it should be to facilitate informed discussion.”
Amen and amen.
The media and the talking heads and the columnists are in the business to make the news it seems, to shape opinion and not to just tell the story anymore.
I’m sick to death of it.
Where were most of these folks when Bush was marching us to war?
Ugh and ugh.
2 months, 2 freaking months…..
These folks all need to calm the fuck down and chill out.
(and yes I think things suck, and might even get worse, but I have confidence that President Obama can handle what was broke by the last administration. I’m glad the smart guy is there and not McCain. I like the fact that instead of locking himself in the WH the President is going out and talking to the American people. He is human, he will make mistakes and then I assume he will turn around and fix them. If i have any complaint it is the vetting, I understand trying to keep from having too many lobbyists, but this going though folks lives and taxes with a fine tooth comb is just silly. No matter what the Republicans will complain.)
I read the Kathleen Parker article.
summation: “in serious economic times it is inappropriate to laugh, tell jokes or have fun of any kind… (especially if you’re the President)”
Ann – I prefer to wait and hear it for myself, but thanks for the offer.
The media has a vested interest in crying “the sky is falling”. Lots of articles about the depression, yada yada yada — These financial topics are the biggest thing to rant about online, in the paper and on the TV to work up the public so they will stay glued to the TUBE and watch all the advertising.
This is about selling advertising time – sensationalizing as much as possible to keep those “eyeballs” on the media.
Doesn’t anyone remember how skewed all the MSM was during the primaries? When someone who actually attended an event blogged and you watched MSM’s version, you’d think the media lives in an alternate reality.
I’d say that this is the MEDIA”S Katrina ( Remember Anderson Cooper opining about all the rapes and mauraders in the convention center in New Orleans that NEVER HAPPENED?)
I’m not saying there aren’t problems, but IMHO, MSM is the NO. 1 problem.
I’m not bright enough to know whether Geithner’s zombie banks solution is correct or if Krugman’s criticism is justified (however, Krugman has been great at forcasting problems the last couple of years and Geithner has spent the last couple of years knee deep in Goldman/AIG doodoo) so I’ll leave the policy decisions to the big boys.
I do have a beef with the AIG bonuses and the who knew what, when debacle. The bonuses were clearly included in the stimulus bill. I applauded Obama for saying that all bills would be up on a website for public viewing for (i believe) 48 hours. We all know how the Patriot Bill was rushed through and my favorite presidential candidate had her chances fatally injured when it was revealed she didn’t actually read the entire bill that authorized Bush to invade Iraq. So along comes the stimulus bill – I think it passed both houses on a Thurs night or Friday. The president signed it on a Tuesday. Didn’t anyone read it? Obama probably had more time than anyone to read it because Congress was rushed to vote on it before President’s weekend. He at least had 3 or 4 days to read the whole thing or have aides read it. So how can they say they didn’t know anything about the bonuses? Bloomberg was writing articles about the bonuses even before they voted. I’m all for transparency – after the last 8 years, God knows we need it. So when’s it gonna start?
vintagejulie says:
22 March 2009 at 7:00 pm
Jesus, all of a sudden everyone is an economist.
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God (or Dog if your prefer) bless you.
Geo – I think that is a big reason why he didn’t go to that GridIron dinner thing for which all the DC’ers are complaining about being “snubbed”.
Michigan and USC tied….4 minutes to go. *yikes*
Media is a problem, in that we have the same news on 24 hours a day. The repetition makes small stuff into big stuff.
Alas, there are fewer reporters, so not much time is given to local/regional stories.
maxadog says:
22 March 2009 at 6:26 pm
If Louisville loses to Siena – my bracket is doomed.
sorry that was for Ann
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 7:03 pm
____
There should have been adequate time to read the bill but remember it was said “The US economy came within 3 hours of total collapse -”
http://www.videosift.com/video/The-US-economy-came-within-3-hours-of-no-longer-existing
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 7:15 pm
Are you being snarky – because you didn’t give me the winky face? Everyone knows the almost economic collapse was in September, silly.
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 7:20 pm
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 7:15 pm
Are you being snarky – because you didn’t give me the winky face? Everyone knows the almost economic collapse was in September, silly.
_____
No I just got it wrong
But the climate was rush rush based on the same rationale (valid or not). Half were saying “slow down” the other half “we have to get this done NOW”
interlude…
djjl if you’re here, or orchid lovers everywhere:
feast the eyes:
http://o.mfcreative.com/f1/file00/objects/d/c/7/0dc70cdc-8265-4ecd-a296-98b679894b15-0.jpg
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No I just got it wrong
But the climate was rush rush based on the same rationale (valid or not). Half were saying “slow down” the other half “we have to get this done NOW”
I hear ya.
Looks like you got it, Nancy. Mich. St. game was excellent. I’m always glad to see USC get beat.
I had mich st. I’m in really good shape if Louisville pulls this off.
79-72 Louisville!
(at least it’s bipartisan)
GOP predicts doomsday if Obama budget passed
WASHINGTON – Congressional Republicans on Sunday predicted a doomsday scenario of crushing debt and eventual federal bankruptcy if President Barack Obama’s massive spending blueprint wins passage.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_economy
To all the Krugman lovers out there, you do realize he thinks the stimulus plan is not big enough right? (ie more trillions of $)
…many economists, myself included, actually argued that the plan was too small and too cautious. The latest data confirm those worries — and suggest that the Obama administration’s economic policies are already falling behind the curve.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/09/opinion/09krugman.html?_r=2&ref=opinion
I think you will find that Frank Rich – who I don’t care for at all – did not title the article – a copy editor for the NYT is generally who would title the article.
GeoT
Oh my Gosh
Are those your orchids at your home? How wonderful!
If the house is engulfed in flames you don’t try to douse with your garden hose before calling in the fire department.
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 7:55 pm
Yes I know he says it’s too small (that sounds dirty) but that’s the part that’s above my pay grade. I know Geithner thinks it’s liquidity and Krugman thinks it fundamental insolvency. I can only look back and see who’s been calling it correctly that last few years – and again I realize that past performance is no guarantee of future returns – can you tell I used to be a stock broker in a past career?
this wont help. enough late nite laughs. good grief
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=303D7F09-18FE-70B2-A82B341DB4F2D36A
I have a question about the “letter to the editor” from Rich’s column.
Is there something not quite right with this quote from the “concerned citizen?
__
“He needs to deal with the excesses within the financial industry with the same toughness and conviction that President Ronald Reagan brought to bear during the air traffic controllers’ strike. To date, he is sorely wanting.
We are not interested in the level of outrage the administration is feeling, but in the effectiveness of its response. So far, it has come across as hapless and completely ineffectual. This Obama voter would like to be spared the speeches and the posturing on the Sunday morning shows — action is what is needed. ”
_______
“Ronald Reagan “toughness and conviction”?? from “this Obama voter” ??
As I recall Reagan busted the Air Controllers Union. NO WAY this letter to the editor is from an Obama voter, it’s subterfuge.
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 8:07 pm
Betsy voted for Reagan – so did Taylor.
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 8:01 pm
realize that past performance is no guarantee of future returns – can you tell I used to be a stock broker in a past career?
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oh good we can blame it all on you
I admit my formula is simplistic and somewhat based on pure optimism but there really are positive indicators and no one, not even Krugman can say with certainty what will or won’t work.
Can you imagine if they followed Krugman’s advice and made it 2 trillion? It would never have passed.
If things stabilize then the reflection and repairs can begin to put regulation and oversight in place that works. Maybe untangle the bank/brokerage/financial advisory companies into smaller working parts.
Hi, everyone! I do the payroll at my place of employment and I can tell you that the new tax rates do make a big difference in everyone’s take-home pay. I just finished payroll on Friday and took the time to compare earlier payrolls. Lately, I’ve gotten lots of calls from employees, concerned about the *exact* amount and time of payroll, which just makes it harder for me. So, that part of the stim bill is already at work.
And, for my part, every time hubby questions a purchase I’m about to make, I tell him that I’m doing my part to stimulate the economy.
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 8:12 pm
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 8:07 pm
Betsy voted for Reagan – so did Taylor.
__
I know they did but would they write a letter like that today? Maybe they would. I don’t hate Reagan but I would not use him as an example of an effective President. His policies (deregulation) got us into this mess to a large degree.
Velvet says:
22 March 2009 at 8:16 pm
And, for my part, every time hubby questions a purchase I’m about to make, I tell him that I’m doing my part to stimulate the economy.
LOL It’s your duty Velvet.
GeoT
Waterloo would not have made the analogy. That would have meant that Obama had meant his defeat. That is not what either author was saying.
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 8:01 pm’
that’s the part that’s above my pay grade. I know Geithner thinks it’s liquidity and Krugman thinks it fundamental insolvency.
____
that’s above my pay grade as well because that sounds like two ways of saying the same thing.
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 8:19 pm
GeoT
Waterloo would not have made the analogy. That would have meant that Obama had meant his defeat. That is not what either author was saying.
___
yeah that was a bad example, but ANYTHING besides Katrina would have been better. IMO
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 8:14 pm
For the record, I got out of the business when my first son was born (he’s a freshman in college) My hospital roommate and her husband were loudly arguing the paternity of their baby and I left the room and took my wonder baby to the nursery. I ended up spending the whole night sitting in a rocking chair in the nursery talking to the nurses. By the time my husband came to see us the next morning I had decided to become a mother/baby nurse.
You can blame it on credit default swaps and other economic “creations” and the crooks in the mortgage industry like Country Wide. These people should be tried in court – they’d go to jail.
Most mortgages in this country over the last years were already under sales contract as the buyer/borrower sat down at the closing table. (The only company I know that didn’t do that is Coldwell Banker Mortgage/PHH). Had the lenders been required to hold those mortgage for a reasonable amount of time (maybe even as short as 6-12 months) we likely wouldn’t have had the housing melt down. These people knew what they were doing – but they had the opportunity to take the money and run – which is what they did. It is preposterous to blame what the mortgage lenders did on the borrower.
texan4hillary says:
22 March 2009 at 8:01 pm
this wont help. enough late nite laughs. good grief
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=303D7F09-18FE-70B2-A82B341DB4F2D36A
_____
that’s from 60 minutes, and what’s wrong with laughing?
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 8:07 pm
I’m with you on this “letter” set up. This is exactly the same kind of thing that happened in the primaries.
There’s the smell of something off and contrived about the media treatment of both the recession and the banking/insolvency issues.
GeoT
They did not compare anything to Katrina. They compared the two presidents responses to an urgent emergency.
Are those your orchids?
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 8:25 pm
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 8:14 pm
For the record, I got out of the business when my first son was born (he’s a freshman in college) My hospital roommate and her husband were loudly arguing the paternity of their baby and I left the room and took my wonder baby to the nursery. I ended up spending the whole night sitting in a rocking chair in the nursery talking to the nurses. By the time my husband came to see us the next morning I had decided to become a mother/baby nurse.
____
Wow, There’s a book in there somewhere, that’s one of those transformational moments.
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 8:27 pm
GeoT
They did not compare anything to Katrina. They compared the two presidents responses to an urgent emergency.
Are those your orchids?
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my opinion is using the word Katrina is not a good idea in that context, that’s all.
and YES
That’s my “wall of orchids”
Hmmm, I did the usual way of making a smiley and previously, TM.com turned it into the yellow smiley. It didn’t work today.
GeoT, do you know how? Thanks. Sometimes people misunderstand if you don’t include it.
So many doom and gloom attitudes after 60 days in office. What if the leaked Geithner plan is not the real plan?
I have no 401k, a measely 3 year old state retirement plan where my monthly contributions have been minimum, my car is a 1992 model, our mortgage payment is $928, have no savings, defaulted on credit cards whose companies have received bail out money and who sold my defaulted loan to another collector who is suing me, our son & daughter owe thousands in student loans, I.R.S. kept our stimulus refunds because we owe money to them, can’t afford auto or home repairs (dripping kitchen faucet held with thick rubber band), we do not eat out, do not go to the movies, my only diversion (stress reliever & a sacrifice to pay) is 6 months worth of ice hockey, haven’t bought any new clothes in a couple of years (good old polyester is indestructable), 3 years ago we lost our family trucking business of 32 years, and to top it off, I’m getting 5 oz. of tuna now instead of 6.
Now with all of the above, why would I worry about my President and the state of our economy? I’m all out of worry. Just exactly how much worse off will our family be if Geithner’s plan is good and 3/4 of Congress disagrees?
But I have faith. No matter what, it is not fair to put our President under the microscope after 60 days in office. Remember Clinton’s surplus in 2000? Where was the microscope when Bush and his deregulated buddies pilfered our budget for eight long years?
Nah, I refuse to worry.
“that’s from 60 minutes, and what’s wrong with laughing?”
No kidding.
We just watched the interview and when Kroft asked that I turned to my husband and said “if it was me I would have already put a bullet in my head”….
What do people expect him to do.
Sit around frowning and crying?
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 8:26 pm
It is preposterous to blame what the mortgage lenders did on the borrower.
____
Amen. But I heard a wingnut radio guy, again, saying the “winners are having to bailout the losers” winners= rich losers= anyone in foreclosure or similar circumstances. More US against THEM mentality.
Although I’ve heard a few Democrat’s spout basically the same notions.
and YES
That’s my “wall of orchids”
I love it!
I’m trying to work on a small landscape project in my backyard to incorporate a veg/herb garden. Our yard has a slight slope in two directions – got any suggestions?
Velvet says:
22 March 2009 at 8:31 pm
GeoT, do you know how? Thanks. Sometimes people misunderstand if you don’t include it.
_____
type as you normally would:
semi colon, closed parenthesis
or colon closed parenthesis
there are others I guess.
I think I’m gonna do a Scarlett O’hara and worry about it tomorrow. ‘Nite.
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 8:38 pm
I’m trying to work on a small landscape project in my backyard to incorporate a veg/herb garden. Our yard has a slight slope in two directions – got any suggestions?
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I had garden on a slope and used all hills and mounds in bck and rows up front, easy to water and maintain. Also rule of thumb: root veggies low growing plants in front back to pole beans, Tomatoes, taller stuff in back…
Today I put in chard, zucchini, salad mix and bush beans…
nancy50 says:
22 March 2009 at 8:44 pm
‘Nite.
___ take care.
Thanks, GeoT. That’s what I typed and it didn’t show up. I’ll try again. As you know, I am *not* a techie and my only consolation about it is hubby is even worse at it than me!! He looks to me to solve problems. LOL.
icemama says:
22 March 2009 at 8:33 pm
Nah, I refuse to worry.
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Wow, I admire your attitude… people have gone postal over less then you’ve been through
Velvet says:
22 March 2009 at 8:47 pm
LOL.
__
by George Bush you’ve got it!
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 8:35 pm
Amen. But I heard a wingnut radio guy, again, saying the “winners are having to bailout the losers” winners= rich losers= anyone in foreclosure or similar circumstances. More US against THEM mentality.
Although I’ve heard a few Democrat’s spout basically the same notions.
Well, they are either stupid, ignorant, or intentionally disingenuous.
Let’s put it this way GeoT:
1. I need a loan.
2. You have a lot of money at your disposal and you’d like a chance to make a profit on an amount you know you don’t need right now.
3. I come to you and you consider making me a loan. The purpose of that loan is to buy a house. This should be a win win situation.
4. I provide you all of my information that you need to use in order to determine that your money is going to be a safe investment with me.
5. The first thing you need to do is VERIFY that all information I gave you can be verified as accurate.
6. Then you want to be certain that the house I want has the value I have offered for it. You hire an INDENDENT appraiser to verify that based on comparable house sales another ready and able buyer would pay at least as much as I have offered to pay.
7. Think of it this way, you are considering loaning me a lot of your money to be paid back a little at a time over a lot of years.
8. It is in your best interest (unless you have a scheme at hand) to be confident that I have the ability to pay you back with the modest interest you have been asking. You want to be secure that both I and my intended house are as safe investments as one could reasonably for your money.
Indeed, they had a scheme at hand.
GeoT
Got any pics of your veggie garden to share?
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 8:38 pm
to incorporate a veg/herb garden
______
I almost bought some herb seedlings this morning but decided to wait and ask my wife exactly what she wants/needs. I assume like chives, thyme, rosemary.. what else?
It worked this time. Gotta remember that.
I’m so looking forward to planting our garden. We got lots of veggies last year. But, first we have to get winter to get outta here!! We’re out in the country so weeds are really a problem, but it works out great for us to have the fresh veggies. I just keep adding trees and bushes every year and slowly my yard is taking shape. It’s such a stress reliever to work in the yard with my little doggie napping on the deck and the kitties climbing on and around me. that’s a great transition time for me to let go a a stressful day at work.
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 8:52 pm
GeoT
Got any pics of your veggie garden to share?
______
I’ll take some when things start sprouting. I’d say half of it will be in containers like bell peppers and bush beans… we have a small lot. Not like your wide open spaces in AR.
Velvet says:
22 March 2009 at 8:54 pm
It’s such a stress reliever to work in the yard with my little doggie napping on the deck
___
that made me laugh because that’s exactly what my black lab was doing today when I was working out back
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 8:50 pm
Indeed, they had a scheme at hand.
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yep, it’s called “hot potato mortgage bundling” (don’t hold it for too long)
oh and djjl
Sweet Peas by the bushel per Mrs. GeoT
by George Bush you’ve got it!
You shouldn’t be using profanity GeoT! ;-/
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 9:05 pm
by George Bush you’ve got it!
You shouldn’t be using profanity GeoT! ;-/
______
I’m still giving George credit for showing some class when asked about Obama…unlike Cheney.
Got to get some things done. Thanks for the nice conversation – I’ve enjoyed it.
Icemama, I’ll be praying for you. When I read your post, I was really moved and I am so sorry to learn of your situation. I have *nothing* to complain about, I only have annoyances and I need to keep that in mind. That’s one of the nicest things about this TM community, we all learn from each other and grow in empathy.
Thank you all.
Nite.
night Velvet. take care.
I almost bought some herb seedlings this morning but decided to wait and ask my wife exactly what she wants/needs. I assume like chives, thyme, rosemary.. what else?
Oh, GeoT…there is nothing as great as growing fresh herbs. I currently grow in large pots on my deck rosemary, dill, chives, garlic chives, bay, parsley, cilantro, sage, lots of different thymes, several basils, marjoram and various mints.
You just can’t imagine how fresh herbs can transform the most mundane foods into something spectacular – and it is so, so easy.
Many herbs are perenials and another large group self-sow. You should look at companion planting ideas. Basil is great planted with tomatoes for ex. My creatures (Molly-Westie and Guinness – big blue eyed cat from the shelter) love to curl up in the thyme that surrounds a bay tree in a pot. The vet says it likely is pleasurable to them in some way and may discourage fleas.
Many have wonderful flowers – sage and chives in particular have beautiful blue flowers. The chive flowers have wonderful peppery taste that is delicious and beautiful added to flowers.
There other wonderfully fragrant herbs too. I particularly like rose geraniums. These are the easiest and most rewarding plants imaginable. In general they require very little care beyond proper water and light. I intend to replicate what we had in or previous home- Veg garden with herbs and use tons of herbs in the landscaping. Even when my girls were little they would comment on how they enjoyed the wonderful aromas released in the breezes blowing.
They are so simple that I had no problem keeping about a hundred different herbs while caring for my 2 daughters and working full time (spending one night a week on the road).
Here are a couple sites you might look at:
http://www.backyardgardener.com/herb/
Papagenos.com
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 9:26 pm
thanks, I’m fgoing to print out what yo just wrote.
BTW if you want to see how the Katrina analogy can be exploited and can stomach Larry Josephson at NQ… check this diatribe:
“Hey Frank. Barack is Drowning Black Folk?”
“When Frank Rich, the diminutive New York Times columnist with a man-crush on Obama, writes that Barack Obama is having his Katrina moment–aka, a shiftless, no good, self-absorbed President who allowed poor black folks to drown like rats in New Orleans–then the worm has turned.”
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/03/22/hey-frank-barack-is-drowning-black-folk/
(read a few of the comments…this is the underbelly of all this)
I see I’m late coming in here. And IT TAKES forever to read 103 posts, LOL
Anyway, I guess I’d better ask my son if he is showing more money in his paycheck.
I’ve been busy today doing little things to get ready for the new vinyl to be put on our kitchen floor. And watching the eagles
The eggs on some are starting to hatch. I love it. It’s such a stress reliever.
After reading what icemama said, I just havfe to say thanks to God for our well being. And just hope our youngest son doesn’t get laid off. He called Friday from work and said it was so boring because there was nothing to do.
I was impressed with the interview on “60 Minutes”.
That’s disgusting GeoT. Those people are really sickos. I can’t go there because I would go off on them.
Larry Josephson at NQ… check this diatribe:
GeoT
Well, there is not much you can do about ignorant people who can’t comprehend the written word.
Thanks for the info – but I don’t go to NQ – and I stop reading as soon as I recognize a poster who prefers to twist rather than read.
Betsy says:
22 March 2009 at 9:56 pm
That’s disgusting GeoT. Those people are really sickos. I can’t go there because I would go off on them.
_____
Betsy:
You can’t “go off on them” it’s like Hillaryis44 only sheep comments get through everything else is dumped… the ultimate echo chamber. The funny thing? Larry Johnson gets away with a slur saying the “diminutive” Frank Rich (aka Gay) and the comments follow suit, but I guess that’s accepted. If Hilary knew about all these hate sites in her “honor” she would be horrified.
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 10:01 pm
Thanks for the info – but I don’t go to NQ – and I stop reading as soon as I recognize a poster who prefers to twist rather than read.
____
don’t blame you, but that was my point, the “Katrina” reference will be exploited.
Well, a lot of people show their ignorance when they show very clearly that they cannot comprehend. The answer is not to allow their stupidity and bias to distort what was actually said.
I’m sure she would GeoT. I do too many other things on this thing so I don’t need to go there anyway. Just found a new eagles nest, LOL. My main one in Norfolk, VA just hatched two of it’s 3 eggs. Our national symbol is so majestic. I love to watch.
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 10:11 pm
Well, a lot of people show their ignorance when they show very clearly that they cannot comprehend. The answer is not to allow their stupidity and bias to distort what was actually said.
_____
the distortion is widespread…. the fringe sites are all saying ” see now the MSM are finding out what we knew all along”
I’m done with this whole thing. Everyone is in CYA mode including the media.
And some will distort Obama’s actions because he is black, or young, or Harvard educated, or comes from Chicago, or knows Blago, or knows how to play basketball, or lives in the White House, or is planting a vegetable garden on the WH grounds.
They can be ignorant, and stupid, and bigoted, and xenophobic or any of the other intellectual disabilities that are a matter of CHOICE. But their behavior and actions will not cause me to proscribe what should be read. It is just plain foolish, IMHO, to allow their misinterpretation or twisting, to interfere with my accurate reading of a letter or publication.
That kind of behavior is how this country followed the Republicans – the employed the same type of behavior. We should have demanded accuracy then. One thing would be said and Fox, Gingrich, Boehner, et al would say it was something it was not. We should have stood up then. I intend to stand up now. I may be alone and take a lot of hits – but I intend to do my part and never crouch down again in fear of being accused of a dishonest charge.
As I have said for months we better take back control of our media. We may not be able to get back MSM so easily – but they can no longer control all the information. They act in the interest of entertainment and lining their own pocket. The truth is the only antidote. You to don’t win by swallowing their swill or allowing them to tell us that the written word means something other than what is written.
I think the former USSR was famous for that kind of thing.
Love you guys. I’m going to bed.
nite djjl
djjl says:
22 March 2009 at 10:23 pm
Rich REALLY screwed up when he conbined Katrina and “populist outrage” in the same column. He’s being dangerously provocative…
the end
have a good night all.
GeoT says:
22 March 2009 at 8:49 pm
Wow, I admire your attitude… people have gone postal over less then you’ve been through
————–
Velvet says:
22 March 2009 at 9:08 pm
Icemama, I’ll be praying for you.
——————
Betsy says:
22 March 2009 at 9:53 pm
After reading what icemama said, I just havfe to say thanks to God for our well being.
———————-
Thank you all. Yes, we are truly blessed. There’s so much good in our lives such as good health, strong family ties, and determination to see each new day better than the last. Slow climb to the top but we’ll get there. Night everyone. You’re all lovely people.
Hey Paul Krugman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOYAuk809fY