Get a stupid answer. Rasmussen and Politico doing a tag team on North Korea. Rasmussen asks the question (h/t Democracy Arsenal), with Politico setting up Newt Gingrich pretty well in their “Voters back force in N. Korea” headline on the polling.
In what seemed to be a swipe at the Obama administration’s response, he warned, “One morning, just like 9/11, there’s going to be a disaster,” adding, “I have yet to see the United Nations do anything effective with either Iran or North Korea.”
Okay, so let’s play it out. We take out North Korea’s missile on the launch pad. Now tell the international story.
North Korea’s Taepodong-2 missile went around 1,984 miles miles then made a splash landing, though the government is saying otherwise. That’s around twice the range of the first launch in ’98.
No matter how you look at it, North Korea is a long way from hitting Alaska or anywhere else in the U.S. So what Mr. Gingrich is suggesting is to do exactly what Pyongyang wants and that is to give them the wrong kind of attention they so desperately seek, with Gingrich’s solution helping them a lot more than the U.S. Typical foreign policy strategy of conservatives of Gingrich’s ilk.
Steve Clemons has a potentially powerful, if provocative, suggestion on how to respond to North Korea’s “pin-pricks.”
At the same time, we simply need more alternatives and allies — and the best I can think of is to work with Japan, South Korea, and China in not calling for withdrawing engagement and toughening sanctions but rather crafting how to strategically enhance engagement with particular forces inside North Korea that we want to cultivate.
It’s time for a Nixonian approach that would enrich some of North Korea’s potential robber barons against the interests of others inside the regime. We need to try to unleash opportunities for some and not others. [...]
Utilizing North Korea’s neighbors, Japan, South Korea, and even China is a much smarter play. We don’t have to do everything ourselves. In fact, we shouldn’t.
What is Clemons recommending, exactly? I don’t understand the proposal. What does he mean by “enrich[ing] the potential robber barons”?
did you catch this from Rasmussen? :
“The question asked about a military response if North Korea actually did launch a long-range missile”
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a MISSLE (as in weapon) not a rocket, which is what was launched. There is a difference. If they launch a missile they are aiming it at someone, that’s provocative of course we would need to do something about it.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/general_current_events/57_want_military_response_to_north_korea_missile_launch
My “take” on Gingrich is actually that he’s making a point about how the UN is ineffectual, which is why Bush went ahead with Iraq.
Nuance. *haha
Yes, I agree that another approach is obviously needed. I’m curious as to an answer to Ogen’s question, too.
I cannot speak for Clemons.
The whole post puts it into context. But here’s another section that might help explain it:
North Korea is not monolithic. It would be prudent to try to generate some leverage on the competing factions around Kim Jong Il.
Taylor Marsh says:
06 April 2009 at 1:28 pm
I cannot speak for Clemons.
The whole post puts it into context. But here’s another section that might help explain it:
North Korea is not monolithic. It would be prudent to try to generate some leverage on the competing factions around Kim Jong Il.
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coup d’etat
seems pretty obvious.
AnninCA says:
06 April 2009 at 1:26 pm
UN is ineffectual, which is why Bush went ahead with Iraq.
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“no basis in fact”
Gates live— CNN etc.
I’ve wondered why NK cannot get rid of this nut. He surely is vulnerable within in some way.
Sorry, I only asked because you endorsed it as a “potentially powerful” suggestion. I’ll check over at TWN to see if his readers have any idea what he’s talking about. I doubt it’s regime change.
The UN is not ineffectual but I do think it’s Council on Human Rights is a sham particularly with it’s recent move to make laws against criticism against Islam. Obama would be wise to keep it’s reach out of our shores.
“North Korea is not monolithic. It would be prudent to try to generate some leverage on the competing factions around Kim Jong Il.”
Like this has never been considered before? Hardly an original thought.
You mean to tell me Obama is not going to gut the military?
another myth bites the dust.
IBJ -
Maybe Obama can just go to the Council on Human Rights, apologize for the United States and then they will drop the new laws
Man, I’d love to join this discussion but I can’t make out what the dude is saying. I went over there and I still don’t have a clue. So we shouldn’t push for more sanctions, I get that. But what does “crafting how to strategically enhance engagement with particular forces inside North Korea that we want to cultivate” mean? It sounds like a Dilbert cartoon.
Iceblinkjm says:
06 April 2009 at 1:37 pm
The UN is not ineffectual but I do think it’s Council on Human Rights is a sham
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my comment was to AnninCA’s claim that the reason Bush went into Iraq was because the UN was ineffectual. That might have been his cover story,
but I agree with you, the UN has problems.
ogenec says:
06 April 2009 at 1:44 pm
But what does “crafting how to strategically enhance engagement with particular forces inside North Korea that we want to cultivate” mean? It sounds like a Dilbert cartoon.
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it means grease some palm’s like an MF-er and get a political overthrow going. How more “Nixonian” can you get?
I say we send in the Red Cross!
I can’t stand reading about how many people are starving there while this regime is playing with “alter reality” games.
Geo- the anti blasphemy laws brought forth by muslim nations is abhorrent. They have too much power on said council. I think it should be dissolved and reformed.
Well, again, not speaking for Clemons…
There are people inside North Korea who are not for what Kim Jong Il has done to his country or the people. Using these “potential robber barons” as dissident leverage re: sticking to security agreements comes with significant risks to them as well as Obama if he did it, and could be seen as meddling by countries like Iran, for instance, is one of the things Clemons acknowledges. But could be worth the alliance, along with N.K.’s neighbors.
It’s hard to be too specific about anything inside NK, including the “potential robber barons,” however, because our intel inside N. Korea isn’t exactly take to the bank stuff.
kris says:
06 April 2009 at 1:38 pm
Any links you have would be great to share.
Ah, didn’t see what you wrote, GeoT, multitasking (writing, phone, etc.), but that says it the short way.
Iceblinkjm says:
06 April 2009 at 1:51 pm
Geo- the anti blasphemy laws brought forth by muslim nations is abhorrent.
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I have to admit I’m not up to speed on that but I’ll try and educate myself.
Taylor Marsh says:
06 April 2009 at 1:54 pm
didn’t see what you wrote, GeoT, but that says it the short way.
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taht’s my specialty
GeoT, I appreciate the explanation. If that is what he means by use of the term “Nixonian,” then it’s incumbent on him to spell out where else that strategy has worked. I don’t think it ever has. Co-opting dissidents usually works when there is a power vacuum. The “surge” is a classic example. But, where there is a “Great Leader” type, as was the case with China, Iraq, Cuba, and a host of other countries, the dissidents usually wind up dead. And the Great Leader usually winds up even more powerful than before.
Even where there is a vacuum, things usually don’t work out so well for dissidents of the plutocrat variety. Russia’s robber barons led to a reinvigorated Kremlin and Vladimir Putin.
Geo- please do. I don’t think it has a snow ball’s chance in hell of being applicable here but I would hate to see it being used against anyone.
ogenec says:
06 April 2009 at 2:12 pm
GeoT, I appreciate the explanation. If that is what he means by use of the term “Nixonian,” then it’s incumbent on him to spell out where else that strategy has worked. I don’t think it ever has.
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couldn’t agree with you more, I’m not rooting for the idea, just trying to figure out the logic, like you are.
Any viable coup would have to be spontaneous and have a preexisting support base in the general population. Swapping military dictators doesn’t make sense for North Korea or anyone else. IMO
IBJ -
I believe it was already used. I believe a reporter in India was jailed. If I can find the story I will post a link.
we’ll probably hear allot of this, unfortunately:
Turkey foils plot to assassinate Obama’
Turkish security services have arrested a man of Syrian descent who was planning to assassinate US President Barack Obama during his current trip to Turkey, the Saudi daily Al Watan reported Monday.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1238562924643&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Click on Real Clear World, where the first article is titled, “Obama makes promises he can’t keep.”
The Telegraph, also UK, has a major story today.
And Geo….you need to read more.
Dr. Rice on the launch:
http://blogs.state.gov/index.php/entires/north_koreas_missile_launch/
AnninCA says:
06 April 2009 at 2:36 pm
And Geo….you need to read more.
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or less, one or the other.
AnninCA says:
06 April 2009 at 2:36 pm
Click on Real Clear World, where the first article is titled, “Obama makes promises he can’t keep.”
The Telegraph, also UK, has a major story today.
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there is nothing in that article that says Obama is “boring and long winded” which is what you claimed “British papers are saying”
want to try again?
The FIRST time I read something mildly Non-Critical about President Obama from Janet Daley, I will start taking her more seriously …
So far I am zero for infinity on her articles … ( since before Obama even won the elections … )
The Telegraph is the article.
oh, for crying out loud.
I’ll get the link. You guys love to be spoonfed.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/iain_martin/blog/2009/04/05/barack_obama_really_does_go_on_a_bit
Here’s the article Ann’s referring to. It’s not a “major story,” it’s a blog post. But even it were, what of it? I think Obama’s long-winded. Yes, he does tend to go on. That’s perfectly fine with me, considering what we had before. I’d rather too much speaking and thinking than too little.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/iain_martin/blog/2009/04/05/barack_obama_really_does_go_on_a_bit
ogenec’s posts reminds me of what I meant to ask AnninCa on the previous thread. What is it that right wing radio is saying Obama is being an “apologist” about?
It’s on RCP, but there are others.
I agree that it’s not a big deal.
I think everyone is just a bit “winded” from all the “I’m different” rhetoric.
Frankly, US interests have NOT changed.
And that is what real diplomacy is about.
I never did think that style mattered as much as far-left folks believed. Usually, the style stuff was a tempest in a teapot.
What really matters is clear. We wanted UN backing on 9-11, although there’s a pretty good argument against that. It was isolated.
Anyway, the foreign press is sort of done with the Obama tour.
I presume the great nuclear disarmament speech while NK was pushing the limits didn’t particularly go over great, but who knows?
I think it’s just time he got back home.
His foreign diplomacy intro is now….over.
Oh, dj….it started off with thinking he was too apologetic about the derivatives and the global meltdown…and then morphed into being apologetic about the US attitude toward the Muslims.
It’s all just goofy talk, as far as I can tell.
djjl – its my understanding that they have their knicker in a wad because either
(1) Obama said that America has been arrogant, (and they fail to reference the rest of the statement about anti-americanism in Europe)
or
(2) Obama accepted responsibility for the role we played in the financial meltdown.
Or, some combination of the two, with a sprinkle of wingnut on top.
Oh, and Ann, quoting a blog in the Telegraph and attributing its sentiment to the whole of a country is a lot like saying that David Broder speaks for all citizens of the US. The Telegraph is a conservative paper.
ogenec says:
06 April 2009 at 3:07 pm
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Typical of a professor. But for the most part I like what he has to say.
Apparently, even the more leftie papers are also a bit over him.
The “problem with Obama” will be, globally, about like it has been here.
For those of you who are fans, you’re going to find this hard to fathom……but he’s a bit pedantic and has an overblown notion of his importance.
Having said that, I think he did well. He just stayed about 48 hours too long.
maxadog says:
06 April 2009 at 3:18 pm
The Telegraph is a conservative paper.
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they’re a funny bunch. The headline at the top of their “Obama” page feels the need to REALLY spell it out:
“Barack Hussein Obama II, first black president of the United States of America, will make his first overseas trip in office to Europe on March 31 to attend the G20 global summit in London.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/
oh Ann….
what to do, what to do…
Thanks, kind of what I thought. Obviously they don’t recognize apologizing or being apologetic has absolutely nothing to do with being an apologist.
Anyone else completely spent on the topic of Michelle’s outfits?
Man, talk about a touchstone for just how “stupid” we’ve all become. I confess.
I really did the poll on the favorite outfits.
I got hooked!
AnninCA
I was never a “fan” of Obama. Doubt I ever will be a “fan.” (Fan – short for fanatic). But, I’m pleased with what I see as competence and an unusual ability to walk the tight rope.
Nah, it’s not because he’s the greatest thing on earth and he sure can’t walk on water. But he’s been fortunate – right time right place – and capable of finding those rocks on which to step – just below the surface of the water.
I don’t care if it just appears that he’s walking on water – he’s not sinking and dragging me and mine with him.
AnninCA says:
06 April 2009 at 3:02 pm
The Telegraph is the article.
oh, for crying out loud.
I’ll get the link. You guys love to be spoonfed.
AnninCA
I don’t need to be spoonfed – but I see no reason anyof us should waste time googling for something you/ve already found.
gotta go
Good metaphor, DJ….
I think he did just fine, too.
He looked goofy about nuclear arms, given NK’s stunt. But…it had to be a forethought. We all knew it was coming, so he apparently chose that path.
That could pay off in the future. We’ll see.
I think what’s missing, seriously, from discussions about foreign policy (note to Taylor here) is that small steps are sometimes really incredibly important down the road.
I was listening yesterday to just how much Canada has supported us in Afghanastan. Now, both the liberals and the conservatives are taking heat for this.
I personally think this goes back to NAFTA, which really opened things up for Canada.
What’s missing in on-line discussions is the ability to get beyond the superficial and talk about what seriously matters sometimes that is just out of immediate sight.
And maybe giving politicians some credit, too.
Oh, that gig was for GEO.
The link was on RCP, just as I said.
AnninCA says:
06 April 2009 at 3:41 pm
Oh, that gig was for GEO.
The link was on RCP, just as I said.
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the article was there it didn’t say what you said it would… and djjl asks for links everyday, she’s being protective of you Ann. It’s sweet.
Hey, Geo…you’d like me in real life, too.
But, seriously, I think he just has about lectured to the world long enough.
AnninCA says:
06 April 2009 at 3:52 pm
But, seriously, I think he just has about lectured to the world long enough.
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that’s your opinion Ann and you’re welcome to it. My opinion is the world and especially the United States is feeling relief to have a thoughtful and intelligent leader in he White House. Someone who grasps complex situations but has an even and steady hand.
See the difference between you and I?
Of course, Geo. I feel absolutely no relief whatsoever.
But…I don’t think the tension is about politics.
I think it’s about culture.
We have to learn to live with less, but if that’s too drastic, too quickly, we’ll bomb.
I think this is less about politics and more about consumerism.
My favorite remark Obama made at the G-20?
It was when he said, the “US isn’t going to return anytime soon to out-of-control consumerism. You must build up your own markets.”
I paraphrased it.
But that was the gist.
And that’s the deal.
I KNOW I was raised by depression parents. I KNOW my son has absorbed those same lessons, too.
I KNOW….Obama is right.
I don’t even get how people got themselves into these terrific debts.
Whatever, it’s over.
Nobody is going to be buying Hummers for a very, very long time.
We’re so over this.
AnninCA says:
06 April 2009 at 4:33 pm
Nobody is going to be buying Hummers for a very, very long time.
We’re so over this.
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forget the Hummer time for some SOUL:
http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2006/01/09-kia-soul-concept/Kia%20Soul%20Concept%202-lg.jpg