Sen. Ben Nelson (Neb.), the final Democratic holdout on health care, announced to his caucus Saturday morning that he would support the Senate reform bill, clearing the way for final passage by Christmas. – Sen. Ben Nelson to announce support for health-care bill
The abortion language Sen. Nelson won is basically a states rights opt out Stupak option. The right, in whatever party they live and breathe, has always wanted this turned back to the states. In this new Senate bill it is and I expect Republicans will push harder to expand this reality. It’s a compromise that I can swallow, with it just maybe having the potential of waking some people up. Or. Not. It’s the cards we’ve been dealt and since Obama and Democratic leadership don’t have the stomach for reconciliation (or drawing the line in the sand on behalf of women) it’s what we have to play.
… Under the new abortion provisions, states can opt out of allowing plans to cover abortion in insurance exchanges the bill would set up to serve individuals who don’t have employer coverage. Plus, enrollees in plans that do cover abortion procedures would pay for the coverage with separate checks – one for abortion, one for rest of health-care services.
Nelson secured full federal funding for his state to expand Medicaid coverage to all individuals below 133 percent of the federal poverty level.
The onerous mandate is still a huge problem for me, which I wrote about today on Huffington Post. Some great comments.
MoMule:
Taylor speaks for many liberals. Disillusionment is building to rageAs a regular reader of Taylor’s is it very interesting to see the return of commenters who left in a huff the first time she dared to be critical of Obama, even though she supported him durng the campaign. They suspected her because she became a Hillary supporter during the primary. Now they are seeing the wisdom in her analysis.
From UpstateSC:
Well written article, Taylor and right on the money. Democrats are in for a rude awakening if they think this is the reform Americans wanted.
As for the snow art, that dot of red is a Cardinal that gifts us with his presence, his mate always nearby. The blizzard that hit D.C. is simply stunning. One couple cross-country skiing by our house early this morning. Mark’s company declared a snow day, so we’ve already been out playing in it. It’s just such a thrill for me, as it continues to pile up, another foot predicted. Let it snow!
UPDATE: Some scuttlebutt has surfaced about Stupak on the Nelson language that cites email correspondence with Mitch McConnell. However, it’s not clear if the exchanges were authorized or not.
I am surprised at your willingness to accept the compromise on abortion Taylor, but everyone seemingly is giving up their principles these days.
Let me see, what an outstanding way to govern. Drop a managers bill of 343 pages in the middle of the night, on a weekend where in terms of news, no one is paying any attention. Didn’t them Dems do this before?
Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are shameful. The American people should be outraged and toss them out or at the very least demand they be removed from their “leadership” positions.
Shame on you Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and shame on you Barack Obama.
And may I add the “test” vote is 1:00 A.M. Monday morning. Let me repeat that 1:00 A.M.
If there are enough compromises, this is the bill that will easily pass.
H.R.whatever:
Title: To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending, and for other purposes.
Followed by one thousand blank pages; more than a thousand pages would be far to time consuming for Senators to read.
Now, that wasn’t so hard was it?
Nicely stated utahred. Thanks for the laugh, because I am not amused anymore by any of these ingorant assholes.
kris says:
19 December 2009 at 12:02 pm
—————-
And the alternative to 60 is…what?
Kill the bill? I don’t know about everyone else here, but I sense if that were to happen, it’s game over for HCR (of any type). This reconciliation carrot that’s been dangled in front of us is made of plastic…even Bernie Sanders said that reconciliation is highly unlikely and all but impossible for a multitude of reasons.
Soooo, we can get this bill passed and fight for additions/subtractions later, or we can let emotions, wedge-issues, and purity tests burn it to the ground…I’m going with the former.
The choice between being forced to eat something I hate vs. starving is simply one of survival.
Kill the bill.
The argument that this is as good as it can get right now so let’s pass it and we will fix it later is absurd. Who’s going to “fix” it? The same Senators and Congresspeople who had to be bought one by one? The same that caused the po to thrown out. The same that are now providing a revenue stream to the insurance companies?
Or, are we waiting for a new Congress? And what make up will that be?
So what’s the alternative after the bill has been killed? Who’s going to fix the ‘nothing’ that takes it’s place?
Ah yes. Answer with the same question. That’s okay I will bite.
I can only hope this President has passed the learning curve after his first year in office. I would hope he can see the mess this has become because of his lack of leadership. I would hope the Democrats can see the result of having blue dogs elected.
How about this….stand up for Democratic principles, UHC having historically (at least until now)been one of them, run real Democrats in Congressional districts with a clear message, not some muddled message. How about real leadership, particularly in the Senate, meaning get rid of Harry Reid.
My point is this….all this consternation over having majority votes in the House and Senate does not mean crap because of the DINO’s. Dems don’t really have the majority has constantly harped on in the MSM and even in the blogosphere.
And sandmann, an overwhelming majority of Americans DO NOT support these pieces of crap legislation and DO support a p.o. So is the Congress passing legislation that THEY think we should want? Who are they to know better? A handful of them have expertise, the rest do not. Do you really believe Harry Reid knows crap about healthcare?
This bill is a gift to the drug companies, insurance companies. So Merry Christmas to them.
And with that, I am taking a break from TM. I never thought I would say this, but I am. It is discouraging to me to see some at this progressive site, defend this bill, for that matter the House bill, and the way the Dems are conducting themselves. I have mentioned the omnibus bill many times and the way the House passed it and what’s in it. Not one comment, amazing.
Asked “what kind of government have you given us”? “A republic if you can keep it”….imo we have not. Sad.
Everyone have a nice holiday.
I’m an old guy on Medicare so I won’t be immediately effected. But on down the road, as our economy deteriorates further, passage of this asinine bill will surely impact my life in some way.
The love of my political life was, and still is, Hillary Clinton. I can’t help thinking, with no way to prove it of course, that this country would be closer to true health reform legislation if she were in the oval office. She’s stated that another run is not in her future. But if Obama continues to wander in the wilderness hiding from his supporters, Hillary still looks good to me and there’s no doubt she can beat any Republican.
Draft Hillary Clinton in 2012.
The conservatives appear WEAK and VULNERABLE at the cash registers of those companies that give them money.
http://www.democratz.org
Sounds good, except that the Democratic Party’s organizational skills are all but non-existent (coalescing free-thinkers = difficult at best). Where are the droves of new voters who are going to oust the DINO’s? Who are these Better Democrats® that are magically going to be immune to the monied sphere of influence?
The DINO’s are swing votes, they hold all the cards according to the current rules. Unfortunately they have no need to capitulate to Obama or anyone else, their votes are the only ones that really matter and they know it. What leadership tactics do you think would change their minds? What method can be used to strong-arm the likes of Schmoe Lieberman to make them fall in line? I don’t have the answers, and I suspect nobody else does or we wouldn’t be discussing this right now would we?
Reality says I play the hand that’s dealt, not the one I wish I had.
utahred…love your sentiments but Hillary would never run against Obama.
I don’t see how the government can get away with only paying Nebraska’s medicare…don’t you think that will spread?
Don’t leave on my account, I’m just a little ‘ol Independent who has many of the same goals such UHC or a viable hybrid, getting rid of DADT, a government with the primary mission of ensuring the well-being of it’s citizens, etc., I just don’t expect instant gratification, change is a motherfuc&^r…it’s slow and agonizing at times.
I’ve said before that keeping the status quo is simple, it’s the natural inclination of humans as a whole…persuading them to embrace the future is the real challenge, people are afraid of what they can’t control. Being the party of ‘change’ is often thankless and frustrating, but even using the smallest of baby steps brings you to your destination eventually.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/18/kerry-breaks-out-oppo-tak_n_397800.html
Kerry continues to disappoint.
Sandman we should all probably give some thought to your comments.It is very hard for me as a liberal to see the progress. What I see is a merge of government and corporations.
kris take a break but come back after you have smelled the cinnamon and pine of Christmas.
Lake Lady says:
19 December 2009 at 2:18 pm
I agree LL. And Kris, I enjoy reading what you have to say so please don’t be gone long. You have a lot of passion and I appreciate that. Happy Holidays to you, Kris. And you, too, LL.
back at you lynnette
Sandmann:
I thought Jay Rockerfeller nailed it in his interview with Andrea Mitchell. He said normally healthcare gets voted on every 15 to 20 years but when this bill passes there will be a vote every year from now on. He was excited and this from a guy who was a real champion of the public option.
No doubt its a flawed bill but passing it would be major. Not only for what it attempts to do but imo it would also be a huge psychological boost to Dems in Congress. To know they pulled off something landmark in the first year of a dem president will make everything else coming down the road (and there are going to be a lot of bills over the next few years) look easy by comparison.
Hi everyone.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/the_congressional_budget_offic_5.html
CBO analysis is out.
With all due respect the bill in its current form should be voted down.
The middle class in this country will end up bearing the cost for this expansion of the health care market. And make no mistake, because ultimately that is all this bill is. It might be slightly more palatable if the wealthy were taxed to pay for it, as in the house bill, but as Lieberman and Nelson have already shown, the senate will decide what this bill contains, which means that so-called “cadillac” plans will be taxed instead. There are many in the middle class that accept lower paying jobs because of the quality of the health care plans their employers provide, now they will either pay a tax for their coverage, or see their benefits dwindle.
Is it fair to ask why the middle class, already paying for the wall street bailout, the auto industry bailout, increases in college tuition and student loans to pay for healthcare? Are the Democrats so tone-deaf, or are they simply minions for the corporations that fund their never ending campaigns?
Mandates are going to cost the democrats their majorities. Just because you don’t hear much noise from the GOP about this right now doesn’t mean they won’t immediately start flailing the Democratic party about it as soon as the bill passes. They’ll be right too. I cannot for the life of me think of anything more unamerican than forcing someone BY LAW to purchase a product from a private company. Particularly a product that costs an average of 10% of your income. If you don’t think that’s going to play across this country you are sadly mistaken. I recognize the need for mandates if you insist on using health insurance as the model for getting everyone covered, but if you can’t provide a public plan to compete with the private sector then you shouldn’t be able to force people to buy anything. It is astounding to me how anyone cannot see how bad the political ramifications of this are.
Sadly, it looks like the fix is in.
Hi Lady Lake:
“Kerry continues to disappoint.”
Jay Rockerfeller did it also. So did Mary Landrieu. I think they had to.
You can’t really have the former head of the Democratic National Committee going on national tv and say kill the bill as his team is trying to cross the goal line. I just don’t think that’s a good idea.
Daryl24 says:
19 December 2009 at 3:10 pm
I so hope Rockefeller is right. If that is the case, I wouldn’t mind but I have my doubts, watching the process on this bill. I still am peeved that Lieberman and Nelson could hijack the policy.
lynnette
Any of them can on any bill. If Lieberman and Nelson had been on board from the beginning then we might still be dealing with Bayh and some other senator. Because for whatever reason that’s how they roll.
It ain’t easy and the process is nerve wracking but we’re further along on this issue than ever before.
kris says:
19 December 2009 at 12:02 pm
I am surprised at your willingness to accept the compromise on abortion Taylor, but everyone seemingly is giving up their principles these days.
That is just insulting, kris, and I do not appreciate it. I am not in the position to bargain squat. The bargaining began with Nancy Pelosi, and I’ve been fighting and pushing all along. I didn’t make this deal, nor did I decide not to do reconciliation. I also have not said I will support the bill yet.
Perhaps you and others will be happier, kris, if Stupak’s deal with McConnell & the Republicans in conference goes through and we get worse?
Honestly. No one could be working harder than myself to write on the dynamics playing out. The people who chime in here are conflicted, as they have every right to be, talking out their hopes of having some health care changes. Last time I looked, kris, you weren’t so dogmatic or judgmental about people who care a lot about these things. It’s really unfortunate and even unfair.
BuckHill says:
19 December 2009 at 3:16 pm (Edit)
With all due respect the bill in its current form should be voted down.
That’s where I still stand, BuckHill, as I understand the bill right now, but it’s unlikely to happen. The mandates without competition are horrible, so if that remains, well… In the end, whatever comes out is going to be bad politically, as well as in policy prescription.
Hey Darly24~
Buckhill…I think I read in the CBO write up on the managers admendments that couples making more than $250K and individuals making more than $200K will be paying higher payroll taxes.
They have also changed the annual cap language it is no longer vague. There will be no lifetime or annual caps period. That was one of Dean’s strong objections.
Lake Lady says:
19 December 2009 at 4:51 pm
That annual cap was horrendous, LL. Dean’s blown this whole thing wide open, with things moving at least.
Daryl24, Dean meant the bill as it was shouldn’t have been supported and he would have voted against it. He also said he believed Dems should keep working on the bill to make it better, not “kill the bill,” as in kill health care reform. The trouble is that this bill sucks. Deans 1st choice is to start over and go thru reconciliation, but he won’t get that.
Let’s also remember that Dean’s a doctor who has also implemented health care in Vermont. Kerry and others are circling the wagons, which is their job, but the incoming @ Dean is targeting the wrong person. But then they can’t go after the boss.
He has helped the final bill so far. I hope he keeps going maybe he can make some more improvements.Tomorrow should be interesting on MTP. Axelrod better get a good nights sleep tonight because he has been looking kind of sick lately.David Gregory will probably do everything he can to help him but Dean is sharp and no coward.
Yep, it sure will be interesting. Access and establishment linked.
Well, I’m supposed to be at a Christmas party in a few hours,I better go and get cleaned up. I have been luxuriating in my PJs all day and reading the blogs.
IMHO Gregory makes no bones about representing the establishment,and he does it with a big grin on his face.
This is disgusting. The Democrats are NO different than the Repubs and to think how happy I was that they won it ALL, won it all and look what we have here. There will be no amendments or changes to help any of us, just the healthcare industry totally. Obama makes me sick. He just wanted “reform” any way he coud get it. He could have fought for this. You think George W. Bush would have put up with this. He would have sent people to congress and straightened it out. This guy NEVER cared, just another “first”. I hope and pray he is one-term. I will hold my nose and vote Repub or not vote at all, but this grinning, “speech giver” will NEVER get my vote again. Yes, we can….CHANGE…..right! He has made a fool out of all of us and still most of you love him. He is the leader, HE could have done this right.
Love your “Where’s Waldo” photo, Taylor. Talk about a test for my monitors (I finally found it) LOL
I am going to watch MTP tomorrow. Should be very interesting. I still am glad Dean is speaking out. I think he is voicing what many are thinking. Maybe because of him, we will get some more change at least. I don’t like the ganging up on him. And Taylor, you have been working overtime, trying to get us the information and dynamics playing out. I very much appreciate it. You’re right – I know I am conflicted about the whole health care bill. I was hoping for more, quite honestly.
Haven’t had time to comment today; but I’ve seen so many names that I hadn’t seen in a while I just had to stop in to say “hello” and “Happy Holidays.”
djjl says:
19 December 2009 at 8:20 pm
You, too, djjl. Hope you have a great holiday.
Hey lynette
We’re still fighting for change we can believe in aren’t we? Not with a lot of help from the WH- but perhaps that is the way the people will take back control of our country from the moneyed interests so completely invested in our government.
Welcome back again to all those of you I’ve missed (not saying I agree with you at all times) – but it is refreshing to read comments reflecting thought, commitment, compassion, and love for our country and world.
Thank you for supplying me with more hope.
lawrence odonnell on dean- he is speaking for at least 12 liberal senators and probbaly 100 plus house dems. he is speaking becuase they are so whip cracked they are unable but u better know dean is doing this bc folks in the sen and house are urging him to. i think that is right. odonnell- also this why scares wh- they know he has folks in congress rooting for him hoping he opens the door to leverage for liberals int he end.
hey wh is really scared. biden now writes op ed in nyt directed at progressives asking for their support. yes now 10 mos into this! please. he also claims dems could have cut a deal with sen chaffee in 1993 and gottenr eform passed. ive never heard of this one. anyone know? note how biden does not call dean names, says he respects his concerns etc.. hmm biden op ed same day dean on mtp with axe. this has gotta be good.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/opinion/20biden.html?_r=2&ref=opinion
Lake Lady says:
19 December 2009 at 2:18 pm
————–
Thanks LL and everyone here at Taylor’s pad, Keep your head high, never quit, never lose that vision of a better day. I often imagine a time where we wake up with a smile simply because we’re able to do what we love for no other reason than that’s where our hearts lead…we are the pioneers of that future.
Merry Christmas!
P.S. Watch this vid of acoustical guitar genius Jon Butler and try not to smile…I dare you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAkOhXIsI0
My final thought of the night (though I have my doubts if anyone actually cares what this old man thinks *L* [OH! Secular! If you check in be sure to read my response in the ‘Bachmann’ thread. Need to get your EMail someday
)
Anywho: Y’know, it is amazing to me the way normally intelligent people simply don’t “get” the entire ‘abortion’ issue. For myself, I understand the key word here is “potential”. On one side we have the scientific viewpoint that this little mass of cells has the ‘potential’ of becoming the next great face carved into Mount Rushmore – but as of yet, it isn’t actually ’sacred’. Pushing the ‘Reset’ button is certainly acceptable on that side of the fence.
On the other side, there is a simply *huge* amount of people that believe that little mass of cells is a human being immediately. So to terminate that life without a damned good reason (like the Mother’s death) is – how do I make this more clear? – First Degree Murder.
Until my lovable ‘left’ truly Gets This we are doomed to argue about the subject until the ‘End-of-Days’ (okay – bad joke – but appropriate). The religious ‘right’ are NOT going to change their minds. Period.
“The trouble is that this bill sucks. Deans 1st choice is to start over and go thru reconciliation, but he won’t get that.”
Even if he got that he would not get anywhere near what this bill provides. The bill is flawed but it does not suck. It really is going to do a lot of good for a lot of people and the CBO has estimated in the long run its going to save a lot of money. Even by the most conservative of estimates this bill is the most sweeping expansion since the Great Society.
Imo Dean is wrong. not only because Reconciliation has become the cure all when it is not. I know it takes a simple majority but there is no guarantee the votes are there.
Instead of starting over and piece mealing it through the best idea would be to pass the darn thing and fill in the gaps. That’s where reconciliation really can do a lot of good.
Jay Rockefeller, Chuck Schumer and Sherrod Brown are excited about this bill. There not 100 percent overjoyed because as Rockerfeller admitted nobody got everything they wanted but it’s a great start from what I’ve read.
I know Dean is a doctor. I also know the AMA and Nurses’s Association supports this bill. In addition Dean wrote an op ed saying the bill had no prudent purchasing to help with cost control. It does.
That’s a glaring omission.
Daryl24, the bill does indeed “suck” for anybody who is an actual Leftist. For all of the faux-Progressives and Liberals it is seen as “the best we could get.” What rubbish. This bill GIVES the insurance companies 30 million new customers. Then it GIVES those same insurance companies subsidies in the form of tax dollars for anyone who can’t afford to buy the insurance. What the insurance companies are forced to do to get these billions in ‘windfall’ profits from the government is to agree to spend only 20% of them on salaries and other perks. This will create huge profits for the insurance industry which the federal government will guarantee. Which is why insurance stocks closed at an all time high on friday. This bill sucks. Peace
Imhotep:
I disagree. It’s a good bill not great but a pretty good start. I don’t think the insurance industry is all that thrilled since one of the ways the Reid Bill pays for reform is to tax the money on those insurance profits.
If this is that kind of giveaway I just wondering why Republicans are filibustering. The insurance companies are one of their cash cows. Stands the reason then they would be leading the charge to pass this bill.
I’m not sure about the actual leftist label in the fact I’ve never really thought about it in those terms. But I do think people were looking for a bill that really put the hammer to the insurance industry. That was never in the cards.
If the industry is making more money by finally playing fair and the regulators are keeping a serious eye on them I really don’t have a problem with them making more money. The key though is playing fair and keeping an eye on them.
“Playing fair and keeping an eye on them”………..please. That’s gonna work about as well as it worked with keeping an eye on Wall Street. The Republicans would filibuster a Bill by the Democrats that proclaimed that the sky was blue. Some of the biggest recipients of BIG insurance company money are Democrats. Lieberman(I), Baucus, Nelson, Landrieu, etc, etc. Oh, I forgot….Obama. This is a bad bill as it now stands. Peace
If this is that kind of giveaway I just wondering why Republicans are filibustering. …
You’re kidding, right? They obstruct because that’s what they do.
As for the insurance industry, there’s a reason their stocks are skyrocketing, and it’s NOT because of how bad the bill is for their business.
“That’s gonna work about as well as it worked with keeping an eye on Wall Street.”
Neither you or I know how it’s going to work. We will have to wait and see. Like the bank bailout. Many people thought that was a mistake but lo and behold most of the banks have already paid the money back.
TM:
True that but ain’t the insurance industry their peeps? I’d figure they would not do anything to upset their cow.
Again if the industry is playing fair and being consistently monitored I don’t have a problem with them making more money.
This bill, forcing mandates on people w/o real competition, is a GIFT to insurance companies.
I put this in the new thread, but everyone needs to understand that the insurance industry titans and lobbyists are Dem’s peeps, including Pres. Obama’s, too.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-health-lobbyists_bddec20,0,5453763,print.story
They don’t get it in a million ways.