As the Senate prepares to vote on health care reform, American voters “mostly disapprove” of the plan 53 – 36 percent and disapprove 56 – 38 percent of President Barack Obama’s handling of the health care issue, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. [...] … … While voters oppose the health care plan, they back two options cut from the Senate bill, supporting 56 – 38 percent giving people the option of coverage by a government health insurance plan and backing 64 – 30 percent allowing younger people to buy into Medicare. – Quinnipiac
The Senate bill is done, regardless of the reality that 53% of people now disapprove of what Dems are doing, with Obama’s handling of health care at 56% disapproval. Considering the heights where Obama and the Democrats stood this time last year, it’s quite an achievement, with the added drama of one Democrat in the House defecting today. Howard Dean, no doubt, further infuriating the Administration and their willful enablers by getting it right yet again when answering the question of culpability:
The administration is to blame for the public option’s exclusion from healthcare legislation, former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean said Monday. “Yes,” Dean flatly answered during an appearance on MSNBC when asked if the Obama administration was culpable for losing the public option.
Nevertheless, the dye is cast after the deals have been sweetened to get even Bernie Sanders to sign on. The Democratic leadership did what it had to, because they’re finally seeing the economic disaster that’s been percolating all year coming home in 2010. From CNBC (h/t Americablog):
Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz warned there’s a “significant” chance the U.S. economy will contract in the second half of next year, and urged the government to prepare a second stimulus package to spur job creation. “The likelihood of this slowdown is very, very high,” Stiglitz told reporters in Singapore. “There is a significant chance that the number will be in the negative range.” … – Stiglitz Warns US Economy May Contract Next Year
This year is not ending well for Obama or the Democratic majority in Congress, who have underestimated the fury waiting for them in 2010. That Obama and the Democrats haven’t thought so far about front loading the goodies and getting the health care positives to the people immediately reveals just how bad they’ve botched their leadership charge.
But the Senate bill will pass, which is why I’m not writing in support of any “kill the bill” campaign. Besides, that’s not what I do here. As a political analyst, I lay out what I surmise to be the reality, no matter who it hits. I also won’t write in support of anyone wasting his/her time or efforts, when events have already turned towards conference, the next step, where the House gets to weigh in on the Senate bill (which may actually be the target of the “kill the bill” proponents, giving House members some talking points). But Pelosi isn’t Harry Reid or Barack Obama; she leads with an iron fist. Anyone think she’ll support a caucus mutiny against the Senate bill, especially since Democrats won’t use reconciliation?
Pres. Obama will not stand during the State of the Union without having the health care bill to tout. Imagine the standing ovation and thunderous applause, with people packed in the gallery, someone representative sitting with First Lady Michelle Obama. –Pause for visualization– Got that picture? Hear the noise?
People see what’s happening, however, and Pres. Obama’s esteem has taken a direct hit. “Hope and change” has been forever diminished to executive branch ego gratification. StephenG’s comment using quotes from an Obama interview with American Urban Radio Networks recently, is representative of what I’m seeing in a cascade of emails (keep sending me your thoughts please, or better yet, de-lurk and post a comment!):
… He just won’t fight for you or me. Black, White or whatever. But he will run over pretty much anyone that will threaten his place in history. … – Reader StephenG
I still can’t fathom why the legislation isn’t front loaded, but maybe they didn’t front load the legislation with health care goodies because they’re afraid of the reaction if people start hitting the health care monopoly, with horror stories hitting the local news near you. Democrats want to get through Obama’s first term still being able to tout that what they did on health care changed American lives for the better in order to get Pres. Obama elected to a second. Though it remains to be seen whether the economy will cooperate, or simply set up Mitt Romney for his run in 2012.
But we’re not there yet.
After the Senate bill passes, sometime around Christmas Eve, conference is next. But given the theater to come in January, that the Democrats simply have to get a bill passed or look incompetent at governing, does anyone believe the Democratic leadership will allow a House mutiny to derail what the Senate cobbled together through massive give-aways? A bill that many Senate Democrats believe must remain intact to keep 60 votes, because let’s face it, these people are worn out and have little fight left.
Or will House members, after watching and resting up, come in principles blazing?
“… [...] I look forward to working with the Senate and House Leadership to ensure that the final health care bill address these core principles of affordability, competition, and progressive financing. Lastly, I am troubled that some Senators believe that the House must accept the majority of the concessions embodied in this Senate bill. My message to the these Senators is this: Just as it took compromise to pass your bill last night, so now will it require additional compromise to successfully reconcile your legislation with the House. The Constitution established a bicameral legislature so that neither body would dominate the other.” – Rep. John Conyers
What will conference mean if Speaker Pelosi simply allows a rubber stamp for the Senate? How will that reduce the House, with the dynamic between the two chambers continually and historically competitive? Speaker Pelosi’s greatest test as House Speaker may yet be to come. If she can corral her caucus yet again, like she did with the Stupak contingent, Obama will get his win.
Betting against Pelosi on this one is for suckers. Because for good or principle sell out, depending on where you sit, Speaker Pelosi has provided hardball leadership no other Democrat, least of all Pres. Obama, can come close to matching.
If you are insinuating that Pelosi will ramrod the Senate bill through the house to give The President a win then it will only prove how superfluous the house is at this point. I certainly hope they can improve this bill, but a POS is a POS so they might as well just get it over with.
And i guess that at the end of the day I can live with that as long as they don’t insult my intelligence by calling it “reform.”
I think this bill will hurt Democrats more than not passing anything, let’s face it, we’re gonna lose the house if this bill passes, and we’re gonna lose the house if it doesn’t. I would think that the administration could understand this, or leadership could understand this. Sadly the image I have of the Democratic party is Lemmings jumping off a cliff.
Yes, that’s what I’m saying is likely to happen, even as I still think everyone should continue to push and support Conyers and others. It’s also why I think people began the “kill the bill” campaign. Not because they thought they could kill the bill. But to give House members a rallying point, talking points, a map, or whatever else you want to call it. That said, I think the Senate bill is THE BILL.
I linked to this post in the article.
House Braces For Final, Painful Compromises But Leadership Confident They’ll Win Over More Blue Dogs
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/house-braces-for-final-painful-compromises-but-leadership-confident-theyll-win-over-more-blue-dogs.php?ref=fpblg
Let me add, it’s also the reason there are already rumblings to make a push to get rid of the filibuster and 60 vote test after this debacle.
Harry Reid continues his buffoonery, this time citing Rodney King, evidently not understanding the implications of doing so:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/73305-reid-senate-needs-to-have-a-rodney-king-moment
The “can’t we all just get along” moment came after King was brutally beaten within an inch of his life and after days of rioting in LA. (I was there, including down on the streets in LA as a freelance reporter watching the National Guard come on to the streets in tanks.)
I guess, according to Reid, King represents the Democrats, after being politically beaten up, asking the rioters to get along.
Wow. Just. Wow.
Ok. I give up. I suppose I’ll go kill myself. Maybe that will work better? Peace
Ms. Marsh:
I usually check in with you first every day to get your take on things. You never disappoint. Usually I agree with every word. You absolutely get it — more than most others out there — and, you are able to articulate it cogently. Thank you.
This thing is over. Obama will get exactly what he wanted all along. He will stand at the SOTU and flaunt his sordid achievement.
However, HCR will be to him, what Iraq is to GWB. He and his flunkies will forever be defending it, because truly it is a disgrace. It was based on lies, weakness, theft, and all in all, it revealed not a President performing at his most skillful, but instead parading all that was weak and pathetic about himself. This truly was a Pyhrric victory.
Drew Westen says it all: http://2su.de/U04
Geez, Taylor! My bet would be kabuki.
Since, from what I understand, it will be 2014 before my oldest daughter and her only child could participate, I could care less whether it passes or fails.
Thanks for the clear ANALYSIS on this issue. Great stuff!
This is just one more example of Democratric party mismanagement. They simply cannot be trusted to have the American taxpayer’s interests at heart. Bill Clinton will probably be the last Democrat that I can look up to as a good example of governance, but then again, he had a Republican congress to keep him in check. Since I believe that Obama will soon have a Republican controlled congress in 2010, he may show a talent (yeah, right) for getting things done in a fiscally sane manner, but I wouldn’t count on it. The Democrats are spending the US into economic ruin, and this is something for which they cannot blame George Bush. They are a bunch of out of control wackos. Disgusting.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/22/nations-largest-nurses-or_n_400765.html
Nothing that hasn’t been discussed here but I’m glad they are speaking out.
snip
The 150,000 member National Nurses United, the nation’s largest union and professional organization of registered nurses in the U.S., today criticized the healthcare bill now advancing in the U.S. Senate saying it is deeply flawed and grants too much power to the giant insurers.
“It is tragic to see the promise from Washington this year for genuine, comprehensive reform ground down to a seriously flawed bill that could actually exacerbate the healthcare crisis and financial insecurity for American families, and that cedes far too much additional power to the tyranny of a callous insurance industry,” said NNU co-president Karen Higgins, RN.
NNU Co-president Deborah Burger, RN challenged arguments of legislation proponents that the bill should still be passed because of expanded coverage, new regulations on insurers, and the hope that it will be improved in the House-Senate conference committee or future years.
“Those wishful statements ignore the reality that much of the expanded coverage is based on forced purchase of private insurance without effective controls on industry pricing practices or real competition and gaping loopholes in the insurance reforms,” said Burger.
Further, said NNU Co-president Jean Ross, RN, “the bill seems more likely to be eroded, not improved, in future years due to the unchecked influence of the healthcare industry lobbyists and the lessons of this year in which all the compromises have been made to the right.”
“Sadly, we have ended up with legislation that fails to meet the test of true healthcare reform, guaranteeing high quality, cost effective care for all Americans, and instead are further locking into place a system that entrenches the chokehold of the profit-making insurance giants on our health. If this bill passes, the industry will become more powerful and could be beyond the reach of reform for generations,” Higgins said.
-snip
From the same NNU link above:
NNU cited ten significant problems in the legislation, noting many of the same flaws also exist in the House version and are likely to remain in the bill that emerges from the House-Senate reconciliation process:
1. The individual mandate forcing all those without coverage to buy private insurance, with insufficient cost controls on skyrocketing premiums and other insurance costs.
2. No challenge to insurance company monopolies, especially in the top 94 metropolitan areas where one or two companies dominate, severely limiting choice and competition.
3. An affordability mirage. Congressional Budget Office estimates say a family of four with a household income of $54,000 would be expected to pay 17 percent of their income, $9,000, on healthcare exposing too many families to grave financial risk.
4. The excise tax on comprehensive insurance plans which will encourage employers to reduce benefits, shift more costs to employees, promote proliferation of high-deductible plans, and lead to more self-rationing of care and medical bankruptcies, especially as more plans are subject to the tax every year due to the lack of adequate price controls. A Towers-Perrin survey in September found 30 percent of employers said they would reduce employment if their health costs go up, 86 percent said they’d pass the higher costs to their employees.
5. Major loopholes in the insurance reforms that promise bans on exclusion for pre-existing conditions, and no cancellations for sickness. The loopholes include:
* Provisions permitting insurers and companies to more than double charges to employees who fail “wellness” programs because they have diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol readings, or other medical conditions.
* Insurers are permitted to sell policies “across state lines”, exempting patient protections passed in other states. Insurers will thus set up in the least regulated states in a race to the bottom threatening public protections won by consumers in various states.
* Insurers can charge four times more based on age plus more for certain conditions, and continue to use marketing techniques to cherry-pick healthier, less costly enrollees.
* Insurers may continue to rescind policies for “fraud or intentional misrepresentation” – the main pretext insurance companies now use to cancel coverage.
6. Minimal oversight on insurance denials of care; a report by the California Nurses Association/NNOC in September found that six of California’s largest insurers have rejected more than one-fifth of all claims since 2002.
7. Inadequate limits on drug prices, especially after Senate rejection of an amendment, to protect a White House deal with pharmaceutical giants, allowing pharmacies and wholesalers to import lower-cost drugs.
8. New burdens for our public safety net. With a shortage of primary care physicians and a continuing fiscal crisis at the state and local level, public hospitals and clinics will be a dumping ground for those the private system doesn’t want.
9. Reduced reproductive rights for women.
10. No single standard of care. Our multi-tiered system remains with access to care still determined by ability to pay. Nothing changes in basic structure of the system; healthcare remains a privilege, not a right.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/
Taylor — Can you embed this? And — Is there a way I can embed a video in a post (as opposed to an in the news entry?)
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Never mind — Neither of these worked .. Was trying to link to the Lisa Myers clip on Morning Joe today..
Well — This link should work (Taylor – you might want to delete my earlier posts)
one: Lisa Myers
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/34521859%2334521859#34521859
two: Bernie Sanders
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/34521948%2334521948#34521948
For those who have said the President never wanted a po and have said the Senate bill is what he has wanted all along….ding, ding, ding….you are the winner:
http://www.politico.com/politico44/
Gawd!!! What a liar he is. All throughout the summer he categorically stated over and over, that he would like to see a PO to keep the Insurance companies honest.
Sure it was a weasel phrase, but he led the country to believe that he was campaigning FOR the Public Option. He lied on his back room deal with Big Pharma; he’s lying on this.
From FiredogLake:
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/senate-health-care-bill-is-built-on-obamas-broken-promises/
snip
Barack Obama:
‘Through the Exchange, any American will have the opportunity to enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan… The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and meet the same standards for quality and efficiency’
Jon Walker:
There is no public option in the Senate bill. In the health care system that Obama promise the public option was not just some “small sliver.” It was going to be the benchmark against which all private plans would need to be measured.
Is lying an impeachable offense?
Glad you’re back kris – and I don’t believe campaign promises qualify as being under oath.. but they should! I’m so tired of being promised one thing and getting something else entirely. Especially when someone campaign under the premise of hope and change and transparency… new kind of Washington…. right…….
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf
See bottom of page 5:
direct quote from the Obama/Biden Health Plan:
(2) NEW AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE HEALTH INSURANCE OPTIONS. The Obama-Biden plan will create a
National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals purchase new affordable health care options if they are
uninsured or want new health insurance. Through the Exchange, any American will have the opportunity to
enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan, and income-based sliding scale tax credits will be
AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE COVERAGE OPTIONS FOR ALL
provided for people and families who need it. Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy and charge
fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans
offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and meet the same standards for quality and efficiency.
Insurers would be required to justify an above-average premium increase to the Exchange. The Exchange
would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, transparent.
I mean really, he never wanted the PO, gave very lukewarm endosements of it through the summer and wasted a hell of a lot of time allowing progressives in congress to wrangle for it.
And to what end? To produce a bill that less than 40% of the public support, mostly because he spent all summer dangling the possibility of a robust public plan in their faces rather than nipping it all in the bud in July.
You can give me the 11 dimensional levels of chess theory that he had to pay lip service to a public plan in order to keep this bill from being worse than it is, and to give progressives a chance to at least fight for a better bill, but since this is pretty much what he wanted all along, what was the point of wasting so much time, raising expectations not just among progressives but the general public?
The optics on this campaign from the white House are just horrible, trying to pretend that he really fought for a public plan makes it look that much worse. Gibbs would be better off not trying to sell it, cause no one’s buying it.
Meanwhile progressives look like weak sisters and a of of his supporters are feeling disillusioned, dispirited.
The die is cast. It took all of 11 months to destroy everything gained in the last 4 years, which in the end will look like Pyrrhic victory at best.
Merry Whatever
Tell congress you demand a strong singlepayer public option http://publicoption.democratz.org
Thanks whitepaw. It was just a mini vacation.
I must need therapy, I am addicted to this site.
Kris
No therapy needed…
http://www.americablog.com/2009/12/obama-doesnt-think-he-compromised-one.html
Check this out — amazing:
President Obama rejected in an interview Tuesday the criticism that he has compromised too much in order to secure health-care reform legislation, challenging his critics to identify any “gap” between what he campaigned on last year and what Congress is on the verge of passing.
“Nowhere has there been a bigger gap between the perceptions of compromise and the realities of compromise than in the health-care bill,” Obama said in an Oval Office interview with The Washington Post about his legislative record this year. “Every single criteria for reform I put forward is in this bill.”
From Avarosis: If he’s trying to cover his behind, and make the best of it, that’s one thing. But if he truly believes that he didn’t compromise on some of his core promises, then this is very troubling, as it indicates he’ll do it again without a moment’s hesitation, because he doesnt recognize caving as caving.
To beat a dead horse one more time, this is why Joe and I keep arguing that what happened during health care reform is indicative of a larger problem, and has implications far behind this debate.
Nancy Pelosi learned the fine art of politics at her daddy’s knee. She’s a consummate player, as witnessed by the fact that she is Speaker of the House. If the conference were merely a face-off between Pelosi & Reid over the public option, we would all have reason to hope for an improvement of some sort. But we all know that it’s more complex than that. Her true opponent in the conference face-off is the insurance industry, because the Senate bill, since it has been stripped of actual reforms, is the industry’s bill. Reid, Lieberman, Nelson, et al. were simply following instructions from their corporate bosses as they gutted the reforms.
Even so, the corporate Senators will not really be across the table from Pelosi, representing the insurance companies. It will be Rahm Emanuel, since it was he who arranged the secret deals between the Executive branch and the industry lobbies, and he’s the one who trots back and forth between the White House and Congress, calling the plays on the floor. I believe the Obama administration’s obeisance to corporate lobbies on all policy issues is Rahm’s strategy, and Obama is just following the script.
Rahm helped Pelosi become Speaker via his Blue Dog gang, which he continues to direct even from his post in the WH. He could pull the rug from under the House bill using the Blue Dogs, and since he was the one who directed the removal of the public option & Medicare buy-in in the Senate, the topic of re-including anything like them will be “off the table” from the start.
I predict that the bulk of the conference will be devoted to concocting the most draconian and punitive framework with which to address the issues surrounding women’s reproductive health, with the overriding meme being that “liberals” and “feminists” are endangering the greater good by clinging to selfish, frivolous, fringe issues like a woman’s right to control her own uterus. We will be advised to reduce our intake of LSD, seek the attainment of maturity and wisdom, and to STFU and do as we’re told, or else go vote for Nader, hahaha!
Nancy Pelosi will not start a fight she’s not certain she can win. She will not seriously attempt to re-insert a public option. She will be trying to arrive at the resolution which will best affect the 2010 elections, in her estimation. Remember how progressives were all appalled and aghast that she didn’t immediately undertake the impeachment of Cheney & Bush? Or cut off funding for the illegal wars? Or any of the cool progressive stuff we thought she should be doing? That’s because she (and Rahm) were planning for the 2008 election. Her power comes from a Democratic majority in the House. She will seek to preserve that at all costs. By planning for the 2010 election.
There will be an abundance of posturing. But I think the only real horse-trading will be over getting Stupak and Nelson to agree on the extent to which they will be institutionalizing their misogyny this time around. And Pelosi will be compelled to “approve” whatever output results in the hope that they can complete the voting and have some time to give it a positive PR spin before November.
It’s really pathetic to have such low expectations for such a major piece of legislation, but it’s probably hard to find anyone who’s enthusiastic beyond the circle of insurance execs, lobbyists, and sleazy politicians who brought us this disaster, unless it’s the Mormon, Catholic, and evangelical PACs, I mean “churches”, who typically sponsor and celebrate anti-abortion anything.
Progressives need to plan for the 2010 election also. We need to replace Blue Dogs with Progressives in the primaries. Perhaps Howard Dean could be persuaded to organize something like a Progressive “surge” in Congress to counteract the Blue Dog faction. Progressives can and should take control of the Democratic party rather than cede that power to Rahm’s corporatists.
I wonder — Has Obama ever READ any of his HCR promises from the campaign???
I posted this above — but all broken promises are listed here:
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/senate-health-care-bill-is-built-on-obamas-broken-promises/
Progressives need to plan for the 2010 election also. We need to replace Blue Dogs with Progressives in the primaries. Perhaps Howard Dean could be persuaded to organize something like a Progressive “surge” in Congress to counteract the Blue Dog faction. Progressives can and should take control of the Democratic party rather than cede that power to Rahm’s corporatists.
I couldn’t agree more, but where to start?
And great analysis of Pelosi.
One of the things I find most fascinating about this President is the change in the tone of his speeches. On every large issue addressed it’s almost a threatening tone…..time is running out, time is short, we do this now or it will be never, etc. What happened to the man that inspired millions to think of what is possible? And I don’t mean the lofty crap and a chant of yes we can. He used to be compelling to listen to. Now he seems defensive and has a do as I say tone to him.
Sad really.
cu Kris and all.. Beaver Bowl game tonight — Go Beavs — starts in an hour.
Seems to me Dean was the creator of the 50 state strategy that gave us some of the more conservative members as well as provide insulation for the more conservative ones already there.
Obama does not appear to have core principles that extend beyond himself and his immediate family.
Does anyone besides me find it amusing that there is this huge push to have the Senate vote on this piece of shit before Christmas because it is so urgent and Harry Reid announces today that the Senate will take a long break not coming back until January 18th?
Say what?
whitepaw
You are on a roll today. You go!!!!!!!
Hi kris
What happened is that he was a charmer who really promised nothing that he couldn’t weasel around. He used his wiles to recruit those who’d never really paid attention to politics and were ready to cast their vote for “the ones we’ve been waiting for.” In other words – he pulled the ole okie doke, he bamboozled ‘em, he hoodwinked ‘em. Some are now recognizing it and others would never admit that they’ve been hoodwinked.
kris, this is a little off topic but I’m so tired of this health care debate that my eyes and ears are begining to bleed. The USA wants the Pakistanis to go after the Haqqani network. They don’t want to do that for a number of reasons. Jalaluddin Haqqani and his son Sirajuddin lead the Haqqani network. Between 1980 and 1989 Haqqani worked for the CIA as a “unilateral” asset and was paid tens of thousands of dollars for fighting the Soviet army. Texas Rep. Charlie Wilson (of Charlie Wilson’s War fame) called Haqqani “goodness personified.” In 1996 Haqqani joined the Taliban and became the governer of Paktia Province. He was still on the CIA’s payroll. Haqqani was the guy who helped bin Laden escape Tora Bora and flee into Pakistan. He was still on the CIA’s payroll at that time. The Pakistani’s won’t touch this guy and he knows exactly where bin Laden is. That’s because he’s still on the CIA’s payroll. Peace
Barbara Boxer seems to be in total disagreement with everyone in this thread.
BtW, these “surveys” crack me up. What nonsense. Take the survey on “Obama approval”. This has nothing to do with Obama. It has to do with what people have been told and as one of the few who listens to both sides of cable news, what they’ve been ‘told’ differs *hugely* dependenting on which channel you’re listing to, and that certainly has an influence on the way people ‘feel’. It’s like those stupid phone surveys on the “Ed Show”. 96% want a public option? Oh BS. This is not 96% of the ‘people’ – this is 96% of those who like watching Ed – Pure and simple, people who watch are generally people who *agree* with him. Of COURSE those people are going to vote that way. Total waste if time. It needs to be properly identified as a Survey of Ed Fans and nothing less. Try a few ‘Limbaugh surveys’. What’s this? His surveys say people are angry with Obama?
Imagine that. What a shock.
Rachel’s going to have Dr. Dean on. I hope she gets a ‘supporter’ to sit next to him, but Rachel doesn’t seem to be fond of threesomes.
Interesting. Things sure move fast. Now Dr. Dean is a supporter.
pmichael says:
22 December 2009 at 9:33 pm
Grudgingly I’m sure, I suppose he understands better than most the effect killing it would have, as would many others who are holding their noses for this one.
Hey imhotep -
I’m pretty sick of the debate to as it is useless. The Congress is going to do whatever they want and to hell with the American people. The more things change the more they stay the same huh?
To be very honest I am more disappointed in the American public than I am the Congress. It’s our government, it’s our tax dollars and NO ONE PAYS ATTENTION. We are getting exactly what we deserve because of lack of interest other than 30 second sound bites. God, how many times have I referenced that. Makes me sick.
BTW, yes it’s about health care, how do we feel about the part of the Senate bill that says no Congress CAN EVERY CHANGE
TO FINISH, sorry about that, THE LEGISLATION IN THIS BILL. Holy shit, is that constitutional, what happened to democracy? For all those arguing to pass this piece of shit and it can be changed later, is that really the case with this language. WAKE UP.
Ramsgate says:
22 December 2009 at 1:24 pm
StephenAG says:
22 December 2009 at 2:32 pm
Appreciate it very much.
mgloraine says:
22 December 2009 at 6:55 pm
Interesting comment. You should consider putting up a diary. Here’s where you do it: http://www.taylormarsh.com/in-the-news/
Whitepaw, just load up the video with the embedded code. Should work just fine inside your comment.
Taylor – kudos to you for writing some really great pieces on the health care debacle. You seem to have nailed it and I agree with what you have written. You say it like it is and this needed to be said.
Thanks JA. Really appreciate it.
“He was still on the CIA’s payroll at that time. The Pakistani’s won’t touch this guy and he knows exactly where bin Laden is. That’s because he’s still on the CIA’s payroll.”
Nice, got anything to back that up or are YOU still on the Taliban payroll? Hey, I have just as much proof as you do. Where are you hidding BL?! IN YOUR BATHROOM CLOSET?!
“Imhotep says:
22 December 2009 at 1:19 pm”
LOL, reluctantly I would have to advise against it. Think, if you fail, you’ll end up in the emergency room and then THEY’LL kill you with neglect! Only it will take alot longer.