Nice to know you think people’s civil rights is a “nonsense issue.” Let’s all remember that when you’re squealing about the “Zionists.”

NONSENSE ISSUE? Gee I’ll bet that comes as a surprise to the members of the Services who are beaten or raped or murdered simply because they are percieved as being gay.
As far as his/her/it’s “secret assasination lists” MAN for this being secret stuff all hush,hush and conspiracy of secrecy an stuff he/she/it sure got all tha secret, inside goods don’t on tha CIA don’t he/she it?!

so telling.

We lose good men and women, who now have no jobs because they are expelled because of this ridiculous rule.

Now, this is really is funny. Thanks for that.

I’d take you seriously on your anti Israel rants, Imhotep, if it wasn’t simply a form of rhetorical terrets you use in just about everything to which you respond.

I first met someone from SLDN during the aftermath of the murder of Pfc. Barry Winchell, at Ft.Campbell, in 1999. Among many other local individuals and organizations in Nashville, TN ( where Winchell met Calpernia Addams, an entertainer in one of the local gay clubs; her words are much better than mine, http://www.calpernia.com/soldiers-girl/), I helped organize a memorial for Barry Winchell, shortly after his death. It was held in Centennial Park, in Nashville, at an outdoor band shell. I vividly remember standing with Calpernia, backstage, as she waited for her turn to speak. She was, understandably, nervous, concerned she might break down, and worried that no matter what she said or did, there were those (definitely including from the media) who would use her to judge Barry. She asked me to walk out with her, which I did, but very quickly moved back, as she began speaking. Her words were powerful and moving.

A half a dozen or so former servicemembers stood on the stage as an “honor guard,” all gay or lesbian. Their silent presence added to the “up front and personal” realities of what it was, and still is, like to choose to serve in our military, knowing the costs of doing so will be even higher for them. Though there are certainly exceptions, in general and officially, they do not have the freedom to talk about something as simple as their girl or boyfriend, or even their partner / spouse.

I recount this very short version of a long and painful story for a very simple reason: discrimination is wrong, and it effects the lives of very real individuals, and the lives of those who love them. DADT is discriminatory.

I had a chance to talk with Calpernia Addams several years after the murder of Barry Winchell. This time it was at a Pride Festival in Clarksville, TN, the small city next to Ft. Campbell. Things had changed. For one, the very fact of a Pride Fest in Clarksville was rather amazing. Calpernia had moved on with her life, though certainly not forgetting Barry. SLDN and other LGBT organizations had years of work behind them, including much needed support of servicemembers and their families, and much needed educational efforts and lobbying. But DADT hadn’t changed. A few more years since then, and it’s still there.

The need to wait for a more politically expedient moment is a very old argument. Other incidents of homophobic based murders have occurred in our military since that of Barry Winchell. Thousands of other individuals have been asked and pursued, and kicked out. Elected Elites can always find “reasons” we “have to wait”; (some) Democratic Electeds have told us, for years, “be patient, we’ll get there, promise. In the meantime, support us, because we’re better than the opposition.” If you are one of those discharged; if you are one of the gay or lesbian partners / family of a member of the military who is perhaps deployed, and you know you will NOT receive the support, not even the official word, if your loved is killed in action — “getting there someday,” when political careers allow, is painfully inadequate.

If you want to rant about “Zionists,” put up an In the News diary. It’s easy and I welcome it:

http://www.taylormarsh.com/in-the-news/

This is not the 1st time I’ve said this to you.

Nice to know you think people’s civil rights is a “nonsense issue.” Let’s all remember that when you’re squealing about the “Zionists.”

I agree with all Secular says in the above post. I will add that this was a promise that Obama made and has so far failed to keep. It is one that should already have been kept if only to distinguish himself from the Republicans and to establish himself as a Democrat and as a courageous leader. He failed.

Had he done this during those halcyon days of the administration, Gays would by now probably be casually serving openly in the military and this would all have already been forgotten.

For once, I wish he’d COMMAND instead of be commanded.

Sorry, Liberals….but DADT is not on the top of millions of Americans out of work right now…

As one of my friends said to me in an email… The same could have been said of Martin Luther King, Jr.’s work back in the 1960s.

See LBJ’s quote about losing the south when Dems fought for civil rights, while conserva-Dems fled to join the Republican Party of southern strategy.

An executive action for bipartisanship on deficits, but for civil rights Obama can’t be bothered.

About the subject DADT. This is something that needs leadership plain and simple. It’s a subject that while the process or change occurs there will be an uproar (for any type of change there usually is), but after wards it dies down. So he should have put this change into fast track motion a year ago.

And let’s be honest about one thing; people’s perceptions and stereotypes of the gay and lesbian cross section of America. Really this is what is holding things up.

But, in all reality the demographic of the G/L is just like any other demographic in our society. By this I mean, not every white male will want to serve in the military; just like, not every female or African American will want to serve in the military. Not every G/L will want to serve in the military. In all probably the cross section of G/L community that want to serve in the military is the same that is already serving.

People should understand by being in the military, people chose to give up certain freedoms that they might have as a civilian.

As for implementation or integration of G/L in the military a lot of the pieces are already in place. Thanks in part to AA and Women that went before.

Keep in mind that the military is a strict, disciplined organization where conformity is important to achieve it’s goal. This should NOT change. And hopefully the recruiters are making this point with potential recruits.

I suppose I should state I spent nine years in the Air Force. Not to base my opinion on personal experience, but more on the professional education during my tenure. So many classes, leadership schools, and many many regulations.

So let’s start with peoples fears or misconceptions. The big one a straight man or women getting hit on by a G/L. Under the Uniformed Military Code of Justice (UCMJ) and other regulations. Sexual harassment is basically defined as unwanted sexual advances. It not defined man-women, women-man, man-man, women-women, it just unwanted sexual advances. So a system is in place if this occurs. If this does happen a G/L should be punished just as equally as if a man harasses a women.

Plus under the UCMJ you have the so called blue laws – that regulate social behaviors.

The lack of respecting or following orders of a higher ranking military personal (officer or Non-commissioned Officer (NCO). It is a crime. It’s not like the civilian world where you could just quit. With the integration of AA and women and the common statement about people not being able to follow the lead of a AA or women, it is not their problem, it is the problem of the subordinate. If he/she chose not to follow orders, they will be punished (up to time in a military prison). The same would apply to a G/L.

Conformity and appearance is very important to the military, if not there would be no need for uniforms. Conformity display discipline and shows professionalism. So any “worry” how a G/L might appear/look is nonsense.

Air Force Regulation 35-10 cover this very well as does the appropriate regulations that apply to the other branches of the military. These regulation cover everything.

Some areas regulated in AFR35-10. I’ll use the rules applying to women, just because there is a lot:

Number of earrings
Style of earings
Number of finger rings
Color of hair
Length of hair
Style of hair
Use of make up
Use of finger nail polish
Color of finger nail polish
Length of finger nails
Type of pantyhose
Color of pantyhose

even undergarments are covered.

Of course there are other issues (dependents come to mind), but in reality allowing G/L in the military more has to do with political courage than policy or procedures.

secular already covered some of what I wrote.

Additionally, since when did our governmentg work in 2 linear lines? It doesnt matter what the top priorities might be, our elected officials are supposed to represent all peoples and tgend to a varity of different priorities and needs.

I use to be one of those people screaming just get rid of DADT…until I spoke to a couple of older Black soldiers that remembered when segregation ended in the Military… It was not all pleasant as some liberal groups spun it…Many Black soldiers felt abandon and unprotected by racist who took it out on them for the forced integration….One told me a brother of his was killed by a fellow White roommate all because he didn’t want to room with a Black… Gays (That I’ve spoken to) who secretly do serve now in the military are fully aware of the backlash they will face once DADT ends…Some are requesting that once DADT comes to an end protection of them is enforced…What type of protection I don’t know…

I want DADT to end during Obama term…but I don’t want Obama to be the only one pushing for it…The top military brass needs to be in on this are it will not work out…And one last thing, I have now come to the conclusion after watching Obama off and on for over a year, that the guy seems to be bored with the Presidency…I would not be surprised at all if he decides not to run for a second term…If that does happen Democrats need to think about who will run in 2012…because it looks like Hillary might not run again…I think she is on a certain level still mad at the way some in her party treated her in 2008…Anyway, that is my thoughts on Obama, DADT & 2012 Presidential race…Bye everyone