Joining a lot of voices from lurkers sending me emails, as well as commenters, a TPM reader throws me further into the time machine. When Reagan was king and Democrats running for national office had me holding my nose to vote for them: Reader SD “will vote for her while holding my nose.” Christina Bellantoni writing below the headline “Martha Coakley, They Just Aren’t That Into You.” Categorizing the current relationship that voters have to Democrats aptly. Bellantoni interviews Lawrence DiCara, who’s a veteran of Massachusetts politics and a former city councilman, who puts it this way: “She’s much more like John Kerry than she is like Ted Kennedy.” In an age of righteous indignation, this is unlikely to cut it. Even if Martha Coakley squeaks through, the foreshadowing is harrowing.
The age of voting for Democrats because they’re better than the other guy is over, as witnessed by people registering independent, as well as activist Democrats refusing to sign on to the health care bill. People are turning on each other charging all sorts of things, when the bottom line is the political gag reflex has a lot of people choking.
From one reader commenting on the post that Martha Coakley should be winning in a walk:
JoeBeets says: “If Scott Brown wins, it’ll kill the health bill,” Democrat Barney Frank, D-Mass., said, underscoring the stakes of Tuesday’s special election.
Not a particularly good way to get the progressive vote out. This is not a health care bill, it is an insurance bill. I don’t think it’s worth passing. I hope the House sticks to it’s guns and say “our way or the highway” and then lets the cards fall where they may.
Obama and the Democrats are trying to cram through a health care bill that many feel will come back to haunt us all. Like JoeBeets, many other Democrats are against this action, but we’re being asked to hold our nose and support what’s going on, as if health care is the only problem with the current leadership. It isn’t.
There will always be a group of Democrats who will chide people who have had enough of Democratic promises on the altar of selling out, saying that more time is required, Republicans are worse. What these people ignore is that if you never say enough is enough it’s very unlikely you’ll ever get real change, because politicians only take you seriously when you make them hurt.
The “they have nowhere else to go” theory of Democratic Party allegiance is wrong on multiple levels. Starting with the reality that if people can’t tell Democratic politicians and their policies from what’s coming from the right, as Democrats sell out women’s civil rights, while ignoring equality for gays and lesbians, including when these people are willing to die for their country, then it makes little difference who’s in office anymore. Especially when Democrats are as cozy with Wall Street as Republicans.
To be taken seriously you have to play rough. Martha Coakley may get through the gauntlet, because people are going to hold their nose one more time. But I wouldn’t count on that working beyond 2010.
“Martha Coakley may get through the gauntlet, because people are going to hold their nose one more time. But I wouldn’t count on that working beyond 2010. “-Taylor Marsh
I wouldn’t count on people holding there nose for Martha…I tried it for Deeds because I didn’t trust Republican Bob. But as an Indie I was routing for Bob do to the fact he was running a better campaign. As independent voter I’m angry that I have only two choice in almost every election either vote for the gutless Dems or the war crazy Republicans. Deeds campaign was embarrassing to watch and I can guess what the Mass Dems must feel like looking at Coakley. Dems need to run better candidates or nobody will be holding there noses come 2010…I sure as hell won’t be!!!
Well, I’m not betting on it, that’s for sure. But we just don’t know right now, Marie205.
Besides, you never know what Obama landing in Massachusetts will do. He’s damn good at what he does when he’s fired up and with all that’s at stake he could deliver. I sure as hell wouldn’t count the possibility out.
“Besides, you never know what Obama landing in Massachusetts will do.”-Taylor Marsh
He landed in New Jersey and Virginia…And things turned out not so great…Obama can’t save a bad candidate….I witness that with Deeds first hand…Coakley will need to fight her best to win that seat. From what I heard she thought it would be a cake walk…I wonder how she is polling with women in Mass…If she can get the women out in large numbers she could make it…I saw it work for Hillary in New Hampshire…Shame on the Dems for letting this seat become a toss up!!!
Yep, I said that yesterday.
Shame on the Dems for letting this seat become a toss up!!!
No argument there.
There is no sweeter spectacle than to see the the political class begining to devour itself. Peaceful revolution anyone? Peace
This is a fascinating subject; someone should write a book about it. In fact someone did. Ralph Nader — Crashing the Party, How to tell the truth and still run for president. It’s about the 2000 election when Nader ran as a Green. Nader details how campaigns are stacked against third parties by the two look-alike parties.
On the hold-your-nose syndrome — Chapter 9, page 137, entitled “We, The People” (see masthead above):
By June our campaign had reached William Jefferson Clinton’s political consciousness and calculation. On June 13, he attended a fund-raiser at the palatial Washington home of his close friend attorney Vernon Jordan. The large contributors were assembled there to finance the shoo-in campaign of longtime District of Columbia’s nonvoting delegate to the House of Representatives, Eleanor Holmes Norton. One of the big givers approached Clinton and asked whether the Nader campaign would hurt the Democrats in California. He said, “It’s weird, he really wants it. But when the people get into the voting booth, they usually move away from third-party candidates because they want their vote to count.”
They want their vote to count. Think about it.
[Please save yourself some grief and don't claim that Gore would have kept us out of Iraq.]
Don Bacon…you think Gore would have taken us into Iraq? What do you bsse that on…? Oil?
texan says there is a large contingent of women for Coakley.
As Nietzsche said, “War…..makes the victor stupid and the vanquished revengeful.” Here in America in 2010 we are all still being led by stupid men and women. Peace
Don Bacon says:
16 January 2010 at 11:54 am
Lake Lady says:
16 January 2010 at 12:04 pm
This could get interesting…
From that Suffolk poll:
http://www.suffolk.edu/39994.html
Statistical breakdown
Among men, Brown led Coakley 55 percent to 41 percent but trailed among women 50 percent to 45 percent.
Seventy-eight percent of registered Democrats preferred Coakley, while 91 percent of registered Republicans and 65 percent of independents favored Brown.
Brown led in most areas of the state, except Suffolk County, where Coakley crushed Brown 69 percent to 31 percent.
Brown (57 percent favorable to 19 percent unfavorable) was viewed more positively than Coakley (49 percent favorable to 41 percent unfavorable).
I will take this from the toss up election now going on in Mass about the Dems in power…They don’t seem to care about things going south on until the last minute. Taylor, has blogged many times about Dems ignoring the signs of trouble with the base until it’s almost to late…
What were witnessing here folks in the Massachusetts race…is just a sample of how the United States is now being run like by those in Power. Obama staff have made the decision that if it does not effect him personally then to hell with it all… You would think that the chance of losing an extra seat in the senate would effect his agenda. Thus, causing Obama staff to make sure they had the best canidiate down in Mass running…Nope, if Obama name is not on that Mass ballot why should they care…Now, with the realization they will most likely lose the Mass race it hits them… we must save that senate seat.
I willing to beat the farm in 2012 come time for Obama actual name to be on a ballot…he and his staff will run circles around any competition…because this time he has a personal steak in winning!!!…Can’t let his ego get bruised…But then again even if he lost in 2012 he would still win…I can already see all the best seller books written by him raking in millions…
guyski…Coakley needs to get the women to vote…Hillary was able to win big for the primary in Mass backed by large numbers of women. Coakley needs tap into the female vote big time and pull a Hillary…If she doesn’t then she can kiss her senate dreams good bye…
In response to public demand, expect a diary on Gore/Iraq next week. Like TM, I’ve got another project right now. Of course you’ll get more than a teaser from me. Ahem.
Taylor:
I have been proposing to progressive/liberal friends that are mad about the sellout of the Democratic Party to corporate interests that we all get absentee ballots for the 2010 general election and use them to hold voting parties. What we do is we don’t vote for odious Dems, actually we don’t even vote for the office, then before mailing the ballot in we copy that section and get the voter to add a note to the copy why they didn’t vote for the Democratic Candidate. Once we get them all together we do a press release about the event and the number of lost votes and send the copies to the State Democratic Party Headquarters saying if they had a decent Dem they would have gotten these votes. Maybe that will get their attention.
I simply don’t believe that the Dem elites think they are turning off voters by selling the Democratic Party to big business and this is the only idea I’ve had to address that issue.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this -
M-
Party leaders have just gotten so arrogant. Obama trying to put Caroline Kennedy in the NY Senate seat. Biden trying to pass his Senate seat to his son. Reid trying to install his son as governor of Nevada. There’s this sense of entitlement that’s just stunning.
guyski says:
16 January 2010 at 12:14 pm
Thanks for that info. Anybody following local blogs in Mass. on the race, put up the links, please.
Well, it’s a little old news for a diary, but your choice, DB.
mwfolsom says:
16 January 2010 at 12:40 pm
Interesting. I’m not an advocate or supporter of any particular strategy in 2010, which is not my job, but I will say that the current ineptitude is stoking a voters general strike. It would also scare the crap out of Dems, because turnout is a number that could be verified.
As for Rory Reid, psychodrew, I will disagree on that one. Rory worked his way up the old fashioned way in Nevada. I have met and interviewed him more than once. He’s incredibly competent.
Thing about Massachusetts, some points and history. First we’re home to the Obama beta, Deval Patrick. He’s reviled now. Hell he was reviled two years ago.
Yesterday Taylor had said that Massachusetts has a history of voting in Republicans statewide. The history of that was the 92 Gubernatorial Campaign to replace Dukakis. John Silber of all people won the Democratic gubernatorial nomination, the Progressive wing of the state party bolted and went to William Weld that old style progressive Northern Republican that’s extinct now, even in Massachusetts. Celluci the same. Romney was sold as that kind of Republican and that election was a massive buy in by the Republican National Committee. We got John McCain robo calls for Romney for example.
I hope what this is presaging is the disintegration of the Democratic Party. The State party here never recovered from the 92 fiasco. It became a thing too sick to die in a way. Such has the Party become nationally. The Democratic Party is now a vampiric undead thing, a shadowed glory, sapping just enough energy from principle and will to ruin what it sets its eyes upon. It’s long past time for a real Reformation and Reconstitution; it’s past time for a stake in its unbeating heart. There’s no hope for the country with this … thing … lurking around anymore.
Hmmm…I looked more into candidate Scott P. Brown background and now understand why he was able to gain on Martha…The guys background almost reads similar to Virginia Bob Mcdonnell’s… The Republicans are recruiting candidates that appear moderate on the surface with that all American family background…with a touch of military service.
Look for more candidates like this during the 2010 midterms to appear. I wouldn’t be surprise if the recruit people from the military to run…
“The Democratic Party is now a vampiric undead thing, a shadowed glory, sapping just enough energy from principle and will to ruin what it sets its eyes upon. It’s long past time for a real Reformation and Reconstitution; it’s past time for a stake in its unbeating heart. There’s no hope for the country with this … thing … lurking around anymore.” -autumnal
The same thing can be said of the Republican Party…Speaking as Independent Voter who can see the extreme flaws of both parties. If Americans want to be serious about change get rid of these two parties and start a new…if not that clean house.
Imhotep says:
16 January 2010 at 11:51 am
There is no sweeter spectacle than to see the the political class begining to devour itself. Peaceful revolution anyone? Peace
Imhotep says:
16 January 2010 at 12:08 pm
As Nietzsche said, “War…..makes the victor stupid and the vanquished revengeful.” Here in America in 2010 we are all still being led by stupid men and women. Peace
Yeah, FAR better to just Troll around and bitchin, moanin and whinning about ALL polititions being the same without ever offering ANYTHING but spewed negativity.
Another poll:
http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/
Brown leads Coakley 94% to 1% among registered Republicans and he leads 58% to 37% among unenrolled voters. Coakley leads Brown 71% to 20% among registered Democrats. A total of 8% of Democrats and 5% of Republicans remain undecided.
Brown leads 54% to 39% among men while Coakley leads 50% to 44% among women.
Brown leads 52% to 42% among likely voters age 18 to 49 and Coakley leads 47% to 46% among voters 50 and older.
A total of 9% of likely voters say they have already voted by absentee ballot, with Brown leading Coakley 58% to 42%.
Hey autumnal~ it’s a shame you are so ambivilent about the Deomcratic Party!
Thanks guyski! You can sure see where the energy is in the absentee ballots and that age 18 to 49 number for Brown is interesting. I just have this feeling that younger voters these days are trendy not principled.
Marie205 says:
16 January 2010 at 12:15 pm
I’m agreeing with you for – I think the 2nd time – in 2 days.
LakeLady
I left you a response on the other thread about Snyder
You can’t make the politicians hurt.
Make politicians sponsors hurt financially http://www.democratz.org
armstrong on mydd argues coakley will lose. my question is – if coakley should lose tuesday si this good or bad? im starting to think it might be good re reconcilation etc for hcare. her nto winning may also mean the death of the hcr bill which liberals and conservatives dislike or hate. on the other hand: I believe in breaking glass ceilings and coakley would shatter the glass ceiling in ma and elect its first owman to the senate. as my friend in ma says: dem women who came out huge for hillary in ma only see to her fail to become president feel they must do all they can to elect coakley and make history. Which helps progressives? her defeat? or her winning?
i dont yet agree with armstrong on a narrow brown win- but its very possible. i still think women voters are being underestimated here by polls and pundits. i know coakley isnt hillary but she does have deep support among dem women which helped her easily win the primary. suffolk in 08 predicted a narrow obama win in ma. so im leary of some of these polls.
im torn on how to feel here about coakley. i suppose in the end i will be very upset if she were to lose bc kennedy would be replaced by a very right wing dude. this is so distressiing.
Yes it is distressing.
More so, that imo, Obama is the biggest reason – not just him = but his choice of behind the seanson backing.
Who is the one who brought the current governor to Ma power (lets not forget the plagiarism in campaing speeches between the two Obama and Deval Patrick) – is his name Axelrod.
I think I will know what I see – MONEY RULES THE WORLD OVER – AMERICA IS NO DIFFERNET – THE PEOPLE ARE NOT WINNING
texan4hillary says:
16 January 2010 at 4:36 pm
” if coakley should lose tuesday si this good or bad? im starting to think it might be good re reconcilation etc for hcare. her nto winning may also mean the death of the hcr bill which liberals and conservatives dislike or hate. ”
I think if she looses it may be the death of HCR. Forget reconciliation. These hapless Democrats do not have the backbone to use reconciliation. As soon as Fox News and the Repugs stars agitating they’ll panic and shelve the idea. Read my lips, the Dems don’t have the guts to use reconciliation.
What they could do is rush back to Olympia Snowe and ask her to dust off her trigger idea and that may see a resurrection.
Two things:
If Coakley loses, the problem will be with the Democratic politicians – self preservation – pure and simple.
If she wins and the Democrats manage to get health care done, probably expect an increase in “retirements”.
A side note. If Mass. Dems didn’t play around with the way they replace a sitting Senator, during Kerry’s presidential election try this would be a non-issue. Karma?
Well I must say, that if what has been going on, on this site is wide spread, the Democrats will be out of power come 2010. Obama hasn’t even been President for a year, and people are already jumping ship and crying about what a bad President he is. The Republicans are standing in the wings smacking their lips, waiting for Democrats to eat their own.
On this blog, there has been very little talk about how we change the party or how to influence the powers that be to come around to what progressives feel this country needs. All I hear is bitching, anger and hate.
When some of us have tried to change the focus, we are put down and dismissed. Hell, I even had Taylor accuse me of being a middle of the road Democrat.
I surf the web everyday, and I see the same comments here that I see on Red State, and at least they are honest because they never voted for a Democrat or Obama.
So, you folks can keep bitching and crying about how bad Obama and Democrats are, instead of coming up with ways to make the Democrats stronger, and I’ll stop back when the Republicans are back in power, and then you folks will have something to really cry about.
hmmm thanks for responses!
angels81, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. The time has come for the Democrats to have a near death experience. Near death that is if they can survive. Peace
angels81 says:
16 January 2010 at 6:02 pm
Great Beadle Bumble impersonation there! “You want MOOORE!”
Liberals did do something and made the message loud, potent, monied, and clear. The in office Democrats ignored it.
I don’t have to “grin and bear it”. I’m not living in a maoist dictorship nor a peon just off the feudal estate; I’m a citizen. I think alot of the other people here recognize their own citizenship as well as that citizenship’s rights and duties. Bitching is obligatory in a Constitutional Republic birthed, by amoung other things, the tarring and feathering of unresponsive, self-interested oligarchs.
Go fig.
I’d recommend you abandon the Beadle Bumble schtick and look to your own social obligations.
guyski says:
16 January 2010 at 6:00 pm
What Beacon Hill did here was Constitutionally sound and more in keeping with the intent of the composition of the Senate. No Chief Executive was involved in the selection of Senators until the Amendment providing for the popular election of US Senators. Prior to that it was a Legislative selection. What the change in the mechanism did was bring the selection of an unelected Senator back to a broader assembly to avoid excess or contravention of the popular will inherent in Executive Authority.
Way too much worshiping at the font of Executive Power in this country the last fifty years or so.
angels81:”So, you folks can keep bitching and crying about how bad Obama and Democrats are, instead of coming up with ways to make the Democrats stronger, and I’ll stop back when the Republicans are back in power, and then you folks will have something to really cry about.”
AAAAAaaamen Bro!
secularhumanizinevoluter says:
17 January 2010 at 4:02 pm
dude! the Republicans ARE in power… what planet are you on lol
You are just too funny and too attached to a fiction in name drag.