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As the Democrats await news from the CBO, Republicans plot to divide Democrats among themselves, something I wrote about this six days ago. With a lot still in the air on health care, the bottom line for the Democratic Party simply that they have to pass something at this point, fearing the worst if they don’t. However, the latest deadline for getting something done, the Easter recess, doesn’t seem near as firm as when the White House first pronounced it. Fluidity the state of play.
Rep. Kucinich doesn’t think the health care bill goes far enough, so he’s threatening to vote against it in the end. He’s representative of what should never be tolerated in a political party, with the book end to Kucinich Bart Stupak. Of course, the movement progressives will be left to the task of attempting to take these two out, because the Democratic leadership props up their own. It’s how the system works, at least on the Democratic side. Republicans simply fall in line like good little soldiers. It’s one reason why the Tea Party was born.
However, if I was in the leadership of the Democratic Party, I’d do exactly what Markos Moulitsas suggested last night in his appearance on “Countdown.” Primary any Democrat who votes against Obama’s health care plan at the end. As a political analyst looking at the importance of the health care bill to Democratic effectiveness, in the end passing nothing would be catastrophic for the President as well as the Democrats, who having a majority have so far proven they’re absolutely incompetent, which goes to Mr. Obama’s inability to simultaneously pass major domestic policy while also crafting a presidential narrative that proves to voters he knows what he’s doing and where he’s taking the country.
As for Rep. Stupak, it would be a tough fight, because he’s moderate on most other issues, but at some point Democrats need to prove they won’t support someone who thinks women’s self-determination is negotiable.
Lord knows a man’s right to the same freedom is not and never would be.
The truth of politics and parties is that when you have a signature domestic issue that could cement history and give the Democratic Party a win, as leaders you simply must keep your troops on the track. Besides, Mr. Kucinich has proven over the years to be a grandstanding, self-important, me-first politician, who’s not only against women’s self-determination, but is actually taken seriously by people for being righteous when he’s thinking only of himself. Leadership shouldn’t allow it to stand, but considering how weak Democrats are on this stuff I won’t be holding my breath.
Movement progressives, though I’m not one, are the reason that the health care bill is going to turn out as good as it is. Without their push, as well as tough, unrelenting analysis like my own, Democrats would have offered an even worse bill than we’re likely to see when this is all over. I know it’s hard to believe but it’s true. Bravery isn’t a strong suit for Democrats.
For my money, I find the entire leadership of the Democrats’ inept and ineffectual, because they’ve settled for less when their majority provides for much bolder politics, including a health care bill that offers real reform. The other side of the argument that Dems need to pass health care lies the far flung hope of doing something bolder, but is only a fantasy argument…
I would applaud Democrats if they simply allowed the 2010 elections to be a mandate on the public option, stopping the health care debate it its tracks right now if they can’t get the votes unless they cave to Bart Stupak. Having the entire party, led by Pres. Obama, start campaigning now for the November elections, asking the public to vote on the public option. Since the current legislation doesn’t pay for abortion, Stupak should be shown out for who he is, giving a primary challenger that much more lift. It would turn the 2010 elections on its head and the Republicans off their stride.
Ah, if only pigs had wings.
But Democrats aren’t bold, the current leadership still making deals that take the legislation further away from real reform.
Yep, it’s leadership. And next up…. immigration reform.
…Obama spokesman Nick Shapiro offered no response to Graham’s challenge but reiterated the administration’s intention to allow Congress to hash things out before Obama weighs in, an approach reminiscent of his health reform strategy.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34162.html
The US Congress under Dem leadership is proving hard to watch.
Woa…It is rare that I disagree with you so strongly.You make a case for boldness yet denigrate the only bold progressive still standing?What is the world is wrong with Kucinich trying to get something like the lifting of restrictions on state single payer systems or opening up medicare? He has been consistent on matters of healthcare through the years. He isn’t being a weak progressive ready to fold in favor of moderates/corporatists.
As I said in texan’s thread I like the fact that he is a perpetual presidential candidate at least in the beginning we have someone who stands for liberal ideas and tells the truth. I know the establishment media treat him like he is from the moon but that is what they always do to liberal thought. Distain is how it is always treated, what “serious” person would believe that we should have universal single payer when it works for most of the rest of the developed world?
I’m inclined to agree with Nichols here.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/538787/kucinich_s_health_reform_dissents_merit_consideration
With all the damn Blue Dogs worthy of a primary challenge you and Markos want to pick on Kucinich? Just for the record what Markos thinks is not worth a hill of beans to me,I got his number during the primaries where he proved what a vicious low down sexist he is.
Kucinich re: Medicare barriers is correct, but that’s where it stops. People are being suckered by Kucinich, plus not remembering who he is: a political opportunist of the first order. I’ve felt this way about him for YEARS (see here and here; long before Markos said a peep, by the way), never understanding the left’s love for this grandstanding preener.
Dennis Kucinich is NOT a progressive. He’s been against women’s self-determination right up until the point he decided to run for president in 2004. I’ve exchanged emails with people who even suspect he’s cheering Stupak on. To take it a step further, I’d even posit that Mr. Kucinich is a politician who puts his Catholicism above all else, just like the right. He is *not* a progressive.
That Kucinich may be right on a few points on health care is simply proving the clock theory. It’s also a move to align himself with movement progressives who are falling for his latest self-aggrandizing act, because many are desperate to have a hero, but also that some really want to pull the hcr bill down no matter what it takes.
I also realize that a primary challenge to Kucinich is something that would be a future event. That’s fine, but pulling him out for derision is long overdue.
I’m waiting for the Dennis Kucinich primary challenge of Barack Obama. That’s how stuck on his own image the man is.
Hi LL -
I agree with you and yes I disagree with Taylor on this one. Primarily the idea that the Dems have to pass a piece of shit bill just to say they did something. Great….bad legislation, but hell we passed something. Ridiculous.
I admit I am not familar with his stands on women’s rights.Never heard him talk about it and you are correct we are desperate for a hero.
I am an agnostic on the current HC situation. One side says that if the Dems pass a lousey bill that does nothing to aleviate rising costs they will go down in history as failures on an issue that they have campaigned on for years.The other side says that it does give some healthcare to people who otherwise could not afford it and covers poor kids and their parents better and reigns in some of the worst abuses.Then again will it really or will the deductables and co-pays leave them both paying premimums and still not able to afford the care?The insurance companies stand to gain either way with direct taxpayer payments going to them. The whole thing just sucks!
Hey kris~ How are things going with you?
You’re confusing political imperative with what I’ve said about the current bill all along, kris.
Especially since there is no evidence that Dems will simply turn on the Rep. and ask voters to weigh in on the public option in the November elections, turning the dynamic on its head. As a political analyst I’d love to see this bold move, but there isn’t a Dem strategist that would advise it because the outcome puts health care on the block, something Dems cannot do.
All that being true, is still doesn’t change that St. Dennis’ is a self-aggrandizing, opportunistic politician that doesn’t deserve the respect he’s given. That he’d sell women out in a heart beat certainly doesn’t qualify him for “progressive hero” status.
Hey, but I’m loving the disagreement on this one, as I’m usually the lone one out when it comes to St. Dennis.
And LLady you’re right, it does certainly suck. Progressives turning to Kucinich drives that point home. Maybe Sen. Sherrod Brown will surprise us all and do what he’s threatening: put a public option up for a vote sometime in the process going forward. The Senate should have to vote on it. I’d *love* to see Rockefeller vote no after all of his public pronouncements in favor of the PO.
Things are going okay.
Decided I was tired of my professional life being in the hands of morons, so I am studying to get my R.E. Brokers license in CA and OR. We shall see how that goes.
OR is so pretty and less crowded but maybe that is not a good thing in the RE business?
Yeah, “pass something”…..woohoo, impressive stuff
Regarding Rockefeller…me too.
I am from Oregon LL and have wanted to move back for some time now. Unfortunately I have a 110 year old Victorian in N. CA that I would need to sell. That’s pretty tricky in this market, because it would only appeal to a select group of buyers anyway. But I am close to the OR-CA border, so I can work both ways.
I just want my future in my hands.
mmmm…a 110 year old victorian sounds wonderful. All those nooks and cranies to decorate how fun!
Go girl as regards to having your future in your own hands.
Well, the sun is out and temp is around 50…outside is calling. I will be interested to see how others weigh in on Kucinich.
I stopped taking Kucinich seriously when he insinuated that Madame Secretary Clinton stole the New Hampshire primary back in ’08 on behalf of our current President who funded the suit and subsequent recount. It served no purpose but to play to the media meme’s and was a complete and utter waste of time and resources.
Wow. I’m suprised to find you making such arguments, Taylor.
Frankly, it BOGGLES THE MIND that Markos, or any Democrat who call themselves “liberal,” would NOW threaten Dennis Kucinich for actually STICKING TO LIBERAL PRINCIPLES against a Corporatized Democratic Party that is already a mirror image of the Republican Party.
DEMOCRATS SHOULD BE MORE LIKE REPUBLICANS and enforce totalitarianism within the party? This is a very sad argument for a LIBERAL to be making. Very sad indeed.
Dennis Kucinich is doing precisely what he should be doing–standing up for a public option–but for Markos and you, it’s party uber alles, and we get screwed on purpose just to preserve the Democratic Party’s image? We are deliberately chained to your anchor, sinking us along with you, so you can say you “passed something”?
The hypocrisy of threatening Kucinich for upholding liberal values, stinks to high heaven; but the totalitarianism that radiates from Markos’ mindset–at his blog and in his threat to Kucinich–is offensive and insulting. It’s a “palace guard” mindset–Protect Potus at all costs.
That’s a clear act of desperation, not confidence. All the more reason to reject and oppose this bill, when I hear these kinds of arguments. It’s nothing but CULT OF PERSONALITY. Obama’s own cult of personality.
Ugh.
Noogan: well said.
Haha, I remember that, and they did a recount (halfway) and she received more votes!
Sorry Dennis is and has always been about himself. It’s a Napoleon Complex.
Primary any Democrat who votes against Obama’s health care plan at the end.
________________________________________
No thanks. That’s the same “hit me and abuse me – i still love you – please don’t leave me” approach to party that’s brought us to the very place we’re at now.
Instead, how about we primary any Democrat who votes for a bill doesn’t contain a public option, contains give-a-ways to insurance and big pharma, and restricts access to abortion services?
Every politician is an “opportunist” if you ask me; certainly Barack Obama’s photo is next to the word in the dictionary! At least Kucinich has consistently stood up for “liberal” values and positions. He’s one of the most consistent voices for liberal values there around.
Therefore, the argument about Kucinich not supporting women’s “self-determination” until he ran for President is sort of ironic. Why are you holding it against the guy for switching from pro-life to pro-choice? Wouldn’t you just be grateful that he is on your side now? Instead, because he wasn’t always there, you’re castigating him? Get a grip.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm
Is St. Dennis anything akin to President Rahm and the mysticism surrounding him? Dennis is the man. An anti-war, anti-capital punishment, pro-choice candidate trumps every other kind of politician every time. Self-serving or not. You always know where Dennis will fall on any given issue. If every politician were a Dennis Kucinich than we wouldn’t be fighting in two wars, the Israel/Palestinian conflict would have been settled long ago, we would have a single-payer unviersal health care system in place, the budget for the Department of Defense would be a quarter of what it is now, the educational system in this country would be producing literate people, laissez faire capitalism would be a distant memory, most homes in the USA would be off the electricty grid, we would not be buring fossil fuels (oil) to power our economy, etc. Dennis IS the man. Peace
Dennis Kucinich is only “pro choice” when it suits him.
As I’ve said many times, the current Dem legislation is awful. Dems not listening to the public on the public option is wrongly ridiculous.
But thinking St Dennis is a viable leader on health care out of desperation does not help the larger Democratic cause.
Again, I wish Dems would turn the 2010 elections into a referendum on the public option.
That would be something worth a fight.
The Republicans would love the Democrats to turn the 2010 election into a referendum on the public option. Ain’t gonna happen. The 2010 election should have no–zero–national issues attached to it. It should be trench warfare fought district by district. Otherwise the Democrats will lose badly. Peace
No one doubts it won’t happen, but given the current polling it’s not like it could get much worse for Dems, especially if it ends up w Dems failing utterly to get hcr passed even with O + a Dem majority.
If you want a true progressive hero you should support Mr Grayson.
http://www.wewantmedicare.com
I’ll wait to see if the HCBill fails to pass before adjusting my thinking on November’s election. In the meantime, and believing that the HCBill will pass, the Democrats need to go ‘small’ in November. As for Grayson. I can’t count the number of doors I knocked on and the pairs of shoes I wore out getting him elected. He’s still rough around the edges and was spooked when he realized that he was getting too much face time and talking too much in the MSM. If he can endure half as long as Kucinich has then perhaps he’s a keeper. Peace
Come on Taylor! I like Grayson and I’m glad we have him on our side but talk about a showboat! If what you say is true Imhotep,I’m glad he got spooked a little so he can refine what he says a bit,I’d hate to see him just become the flip side of the opposition.
The latest move against progressives:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-brandzel/why-progressives-should-b_b_492645.html
If it were only what he describes. He wants Obama bailed out and he is willing to put aside his failures.
Dennis Kucinich is a self aggrandizing horse’s ass. The fact that he holds many of the same positions that I do will never change that fact. What good are principles espoused by an unprincipled man?
what is truly sad is that the party leadership has gotten to the point where it might need his vote.
Lake Lady says:
10 March 2010 at 1:06 pm
Showboat or not, Grayson openly supports women’s self-determination, is very progressive on banking issues, while not being a two-faced politician who uses his congressional seat to run non-stop failing and self-delusional campaigns for president.
i agree taylor. kucinich got primaried before bc he abandons his district to run for prez every 4 yrs. he has vehemently opposed choice until 04 when he changed his mind. for every progressive vote we lose on hcr that means a conservadem gets more influence. kucicnich among others is demanding that states be allowed to set up alt hcr system i e single payer which i think is very imp. kucinich right now could ensure that is in the bill if he played for it. the dems pass something here- u cant spend a yr and come out with nada. the po will be an issue – just look at what dean is saying today. us progressives will make sure they wont forget what they did on the hill. every dem sen candidate i know is running on making sure the po becomes law. i like grayson. grijalva. not kucinich. i think sanders is the best in the senate and sherrod brown. dean is rearing his head these past few days and that cant make the wh feel good. dr dean is a real threat- he carries cred with grassroots and is a dr and frmr dnc chair for godsake.its time to pass this bill and move to other issues. but the po will resurface and be a huge headache for the wh until its enacted.
I had no idea about kucinich being against choice!
texan4hillary says:
10 March 2010 at 4:19 pm
St. Dennis is a fraud.
As for the PO, there are now over 40 senators who say they would vote for it if inside hcr if it came through reconciliation. Rockefeller, as I’ve written before, is still a hold out, as is Harkin, Webb, Warner, Kohl, Begich, McCaskill, Hagan, Baucus, Webb, Conrad, Byrd, Pryor, and I’m not sure who else. Trouble is there are all sorts of trap doors to keep it from making it through reconciliation.
/boogle
Primary them? Why bother? The Democratic “leadership” across the board should be primaried.
It was like worrying about blown light bulb while ignoring the gash along the side of the sinking Titanic.
The Democrats have already lost. This bill doesn’t change that nor does it ameliorate more than it wounds.
Mr.”fraud” (I really like Dennis) was on the floor of the House today. He introduced H. Con. Res. 248. Very good debate. Although the warmongers won the day. But this has just begun. Bet on it. Peace
I think this post is ridiculous.
I say establishment politics is a fraud.
Here’s what is ridiculous:
Taylor and Markos argue Dems should primary Kucinich over his support for a public option! But there are 41 Senators who have said they’d vote yes on a bill with a public option passed in reconcilation–and the Obama White House and the Dem Leadership are completely ignoring them.
In other words, dear readers, we COULD have a public option if the Democratic Leadership would listen to their colleagues. They are only 9 votes short of having a public option on the table.
And, Markos and Taylor are venting their spleens at Democrats who support the public option! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. What’s wrong with this picture?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/10/public-option-support-now_n_493725.html
Stupak is being primaried.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/86159-stupak-faces-primary-challenge
Kucinich can’t be primaried, (even though Markos apparently thinks so), because the deadline to file passed a couple of weeks ago.
Noogan says:
11 March 2010 at 8:24 am (Edit)
Here’s what is ridiculous: Taylor and Markos argue Dems should primary Kucinich over his support for a public option!
This is bullshit.
The reason I want Kucinich primaried whenever it’s possible is he’s a preening jackass who is against women’s self-determination whose only purpose is to run for president.
I’ve said a million times that Dems should pass incremental fixes to health care, but most importantly, that the American public wants the public option, with Dems ignoring the only thing they want.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/2010/03/06/if-dems-appease-stupak-they-should-lose-their-jobs/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/if-dems-appease-stupak-pe_b_487763.html
I could put up a million more posts, including a youtube of my appearance on MSNBC, too, but won’t. Just get your facts straight, please.