–bumped–
Vice President Joe Biden was brutally and summarily stabbed in the front upon his arrival in Israel.
Via Laura Rozen, we find out that Biden’s tough comments were saved for private meetings:
“This is starting to get dangerous for us,” Biden castigated his interlocutors. “What you’re doing here undermines the security of our troops who are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. That endangers us and it endangers regional peace.”
You can almost visualize the cartoon bubble over the Israel heads: Then do something about Iran.
One can only imagine the headlines if this mission had been given to Sect. Clinton, with the welcome Biden received happening as Hillary touched down. I guess there are some advantages to being neutered at State.
So far, Biden’s escaped the Hillary-esque reviews from his humiliation, but he shouldn’t and neither should Pres. Obama, who’s obviously seen as someone having no power at all to wield with Israel. Israel’s “apology” for the settlement building timing simply lip service paid for our unqualified support, no matter how our friends treat us. But that’s been the growing reality with U.S. – Israel relations, because they’ve got our policy wrapped around their flag pole.
Ben Smith has a very interesting tidbit:
One veteran of the U.S.-Israel relationship told me yesterday he was surprised Biden hadn’t simply gotten back on his plane and left the country when the new settlements — a central blow to the U.S. project and the end of a recent shift toward indirect talks — were announced. The outcome inevitably makes him, an the U.S., look weak. But then, the administration’s hand does seem to be weaker than it was a year ago, with bluffs having been called and any sense of a timeline evaporated.
Biden’s unflinching support for Israel was rewarded by disrespect when the settlements were announced purposely to show Israel’s clout over ours. The Obama-Biden administration relegated to words and a strong statement, which blows over the heads of the Middle East powers, because they know the Administration can’t do a thing to manifest change unless the parties involved sanction it.
Everyone knowing that Pres. Bill Clinton got as far as we’re going to get unless someone cries uncle.
Besides, nobody is in the least worried about what the U.S. response will be to anything Israel does. Neither Republicans or Democrats willing to treat Israel and the Palestinians equally accountable for their intransigence on substantive talks, with the right always willing to appease and enable Israel, especially on Iran hyperbole, even at the expense of progress in the region, which would actually make Israel safer and more secure.
Biden in his Tel Aviv speech (full remarks here) said the obvious: “The demographic realities make it difficult for Israel to be a Jewish homeland and a democratic country… The status quo is not sustainable.” And as Laura Rozen reported, the “‘but you have to do things yourselves for peace’ part” was pumped up.
The entire Obama foreign policy team looks feckless in the face of serious regional challenges. With Biden’s embarrassment after a career of non-stop support of Israel a sobering lesson.
Being Israel’s poodle gets the U.S. nowhere, especially in the wider goals for Middle East equilibrium.
Taylor
I’ve been finding people who would never have questioned US support of Israel beginning to do so. And that includes an email from a Jewish acquaintance in the DC area who says there is a bit of the same kind of conversation from their Congregation. I’m not sure what to think of it – but it is at least interesting.
Important anecdotal evidence on this comes in from conservative Israelis, that’s for sure. I’ve received emails on this, too.
But I have interaction with progressive American Jews who are equally frustrated that the Israelis have thwarted Obama’s efforts as soon as he announced his policy on settlements. Most of these same people now demoralized because Obama hasn’t followed through, even backtracked on one occasion.
Republicans are simply aghast at Obama’s Middle East policy, which they see as now having fallen apart, hoping it has so they can make political points.
You simply cannot make statements about the Middle East without follow through that proves you’re serious. Obama’s failed utterly in this regard, because there is nothing he’s prepared or can do about settlements, with US politics not allowing any response for Israeli behavior that is against US policy.
Obama knows that if Israel doesn’t change on settlements that they are in real trouble. Politics constrains him. But the President is a staunch supporter of Israel. His statements have been in Israel’s best interest.
However, the most committed in this scenario is the right, including the right in the US that is aided by the likes of Rev. Hagee and the evangelical community, all of whom see Obama as the devil.
Obama once said he wouldn’t let Middle East progress wait until his second term. People I’m hearing from don’t hold out much optimism that anything will get done once elections begin, which are right around the corner.
We are begging to look like the thousand pound weakling. Gulliver impotent and clueless. What would Isreal do given the reverse? Something drastic.I thought at the beginning of his term that FP was an area that Obama had given a lot of thought…was it only superficial as much of his vaunted policy smarts seems to be?
I have often wondered why this unholy alliance between our religious wing nuts and Israel has been allowed to develop to the extent it has.Especially the ones who are elected officials. Seems like we have American players who are undermining us. This ridiculous fear of the religious right and the level of legitimacy they are allowed in all things of state is stupid and dangerous. I thought this country was founded on freedom FROM religion.
Biden should have had a tickle-party!
I don’t see a way for peace in the middle east. I don’t think Israel is going to give up expanding there settlements. Isreal has always held all the cards and I don’t see that changing. I think Jerusalem should be a international city governed by a council of Jewish, christians, and muslim and of course non religion people. Let Ram Allah be the capital of Palestine and Tel Aviv the capital of Isreal. There are many things that can be done but I am afraid things are just going to stay the same because alot of people don’t want to budge on anything.
Even *that* would have been less embarrassing, JoeCHI!
You all make more sense that the Serious Ones.
Everytime this subject comes up I’m always left wondering when did we decide that we had to be a staunch defender of Isreal? Did the american people decide this long ago and I just missed it or what? I think it’s one of those things that should be debated in political elections. It mostly seesm to be avoided and the policy we currently have seems to be one that was perhaps effecitve during the Cold War but has become usless now.
See Harry Truman, 1947-1948.
After WWII and Hitler’s massacre of the Jews, it was understandable. The Jews needed a state to call their own. This is simplistic, but you all have The Google.
I also am 100% in favor of supporting Israel, the smallest democracy in a very hostile region.
That said, it’s long past time that everyone respects that Israel is a formidable nuclear weaponized nation; one whose sovereignty is respected, minus one madman in Iran, who should not be able to lead the rest of the world around by its nose.
Leading the rest of the world around by its nose? OH, I agree completely. Israel has sure been able to count on staunch supporters such as the 57 member Organization of Islamic States, the 22-member Arab League, China, Russia, Brazil, and the European Union…and those lovely characters on the UN Human Rights Council.
Please.
Thank goodness that we have such a pro-Israel president in Barack Obama, and that he doesn’t listen to some of the Israel-only bashers on this blog. To some regular posters, Israel can do no right, and Iran can do no wrong. Sad.
Don’t forget Taylor, but Obama at the time of asking Israel for a settlement freeze, also asked Arab nations to in some ways show some diplomatic gestures toward Israel. Secretary Clinton got spit in her face on this request by Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the Arab League. I haven’t seen a post on your blog concerning this.
Two things. First of all the Israelis have stooped to a new low. I for one didn’t think that that was possible. The Israeli supermarket chain Hinam has started airing an advertisement that parodies the Dubai assassination. It has to be seen to be believed. What a bunch of low lifes. Secondly, I have come to the conclusion that a two-state solution is no longer possible. The time has come for the West Bank and Gaza to be incorporated into Israel. All of the people living in both the West Bank and Gaza should be granted the same rights and privileges that each Israeli citizen enjoys. The time has come to end this kabuki dance once and for all. Peace
Why is it ok for the Israelis to have a place to call their own, but apparently not so for the Palestinians, who were there first. Even in biblical times they were there first. I sure do agree that Israel deserves support, but my heart breaks for the Palestinians. It just isn’t fair. No wonder middle eastern countries hate U.S. which appears to be controlled by Israel.
And of course everybody knows that Israel has nuclear which it spied and stole from U.S. but everybody pretends they don’t realize this.
The heart breaks.
I just want the process to be fair !! I am a big supporter of Israel !! I was impressed about the wars it had to fight. Isreal had to fight the 1948 arab-israeli war, the six day war, and the Yom Kippur war. I like that Isreal allows gays to serve openly in there military and one of the first countries to allow women to serve in the military. Its really sortof a european country in a region that is strict towards human rights. Golda Meir was Israel’s prime minister in 1969, which I am sure there was not that many female leaders in the world at that time. She was a tough,strong,smart woman that I have to admire. I just wish for peace in that region but I don’t see how that is going to happen !!!
Liberalastheycome says:
11 March 2010 at 5:49 pm
Are you talking about Clinton’s visit in February? When she asked the Arabs for yet *more* patience?
Over the last year alone I’ve been to innumerable events on the Middle East, writing about those I’ve attended and I write as much as time permits on Middle East issues, though it’s not nearly as much as I’d like.
Biden Trip Reveals Ominous Side of Obama’s Treatment of Israel
By Leo Rennert
The most salient part of Vice President Biden’s speech in Tel Aviv came toward the end of his address — after he spoke about the “unbreakable bond” between the U.S. and Israel, after he assured his audience that the administration has an “ironclad commitment to Israel’s security,” and after he reassured skeptical Israelis that America “stands shoulder to shoulder” with the Jewish state.
Once these nice pieties were out of the way, Biden got to the real, unbalanced U.S. position vis-à-vis Israel and the Palestinians — again “condemning” Israel for moving ahead with plans for more housing units in East Jerusalem, while showering fulsome praise on Palestinian President Abbas and Prime Minister Fayyad.
Having lauded Abbas and Fayyad as “willing partners” for peace and competent leaders to bring about a genuine two-state solution, Biden added in the same paragraph this contrast with the Israeli government:
But instead, two days ago, the Israeli government announced it would advance planning for new housing in East Jerusalem. Because that decision undermined the trust required for productive negotiations, I — and at the request of President Obama — condemned it immediately and unequivocally.
Biden’s comments are doubly revealing.
First, the vice president made clear that it was Obama who made the decision to “condemn” the Israeli government — one of the harshest criticisms ever leveled against Israeli leaders by an American president.
Second, Biden — voicing Obama’s views — refrained from uttering anything approaching similar incendiary criticism of Abbas’s multiple anti-Israel and anti-peace provocations.
The closest the vice president came to expressing any displeasure with Palestinian provocations was when he told his audience that “you’ve been frustrated by the unwillingness of some Palestinian leaders to curb incitement.” This remark didn’t even rise to a slap on the wrist, and it carefully omitted identification of who these Palestinian leaders might be. It’s not something that need worry Abbas in the slightest.
Biden’s juxtaposition of slamming Israel hard and refraining from bringing up anything about Abbas’s multiple impediments to advancing the peace process makes a mockery of Obama-Biden pledges to hold all sides equally accountable when they get out of line.
Repeating words spoken earlier in the week by U.S. envoy George Mitchell, Biden told his Tel Aviv audience: “The United States will continue to hold both sides accountable for any statements or any actions that inflame tensions or prejudice the outcome of these talks.”
Oh, really?
If Biden were true to his words, he would have denounced Abbas’s persistent glorification of suicide bombers; Abbas’s incitement campaign against Israel in Palestinian Authority media, schools and mosques; and Abbas’s retention of clauses in the PLO/Fatah charter that call for the total elimination of the Jewish state. He also might have “condemned” Fayyad for joining Abbas in legitimizing terrorist murderers. Doesn’t such conduct also “undermine trust required for productive negotiations”?
But while firing away at Netanyahu, Biden kept his powder dry with Abbas and Fayyad.
Why?
The answer rests with Obama’s failure to make good on his promises to hold the Palestinian Authority, Arab leaders, and Israel equally accountable for their actions and statements. When the chips are down, only Israel’s government arouses Obama’s ire — never Arab leaders or Abbas.
It’s this unbalanced pursuit of an elusive peace that has thrown Obama’s diplomacy off-track from the start. First, while overlooking Arab/Palestinian provocations, the president pursued a one-dimensional pressure campaign to get Netanyahu to impose an absolute freeze on housing construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. That got him nowhere, except that Abbas was so delighted with Obama’s exclusive focus on Netanyahu that the Palestinian leader abandoned direct negotiations and decided that he could get more by using Obama as his negotiating proxy.
Now, Biden and Obama have repeated the same diplomatic mistake. Faced with Israel’s ill-timed announcement of plans for more housing units in East Jerusalem, they immediately fired their heaviest verbal guns at the Israeli government — without pausing to consider that these housing units are not apt to be built for another several years and without thinking through that this unprecedented U.S. slap at Israel would again stoke Abbas’s disinterest in direct negotiations while making Israelis wonder why the U.S. picks on only them.
Even the Israel-unfriendly New York Times opined on its editorial page that Obama’s diplomacy has been clumsy and counterproductive.
In recent days, Syrian President Assad played host in Damascus at a chummy get-together with Iranian President Ahmadinejad and Hezbollah chieftain Narsrallah — without Obama sallying forth with fulsome denunciation of the Syrian leader and his guests. In fact, it was just the opposite: Obama is making new diplomatic overtures to Assad by sending a U.S. ambassador to Damascus. A few days later, Ahmadinejad was embraced by Afghan President Hamid Karzai in Kabul, who listened patiently as Ahmadinejad uncorked his vile tirades against Israel and the U.S. Again, no harsh condemnation of what happened in Kabul.
Only Israel seems to get Obama’s dander up, as illustrated by Biden’s sharp comments this week. It’s not exactly something to inspire confidence or expectations of even-handed U.S. mediation down the road.
Jerusalem fact sheet:
1. General Considerations
a. The connection between the Jewish People and the City of Jerusalem is one of the most well documented facts in world history.
In Jewish traditional sources, the word “Jerusalem” is mentioned over 600 times, at least 140 times in the New Testament, but never in the Koran.
There is a reference in the Koran (17:7) to the destruction of the First and Second Temples, which were located in Jerusalem.
There is also a reference in the Koran (34:13) to King David and his son, King Solomon who built the First Temple in Jerusalem.
But the Koran, which is about 1,400 years old, does not explicitly mention the word “Jerusalem.”
Considering the word “Jerusalem” existed for about 2,000 years prior to the birth of Islam, this is noteworthy.
b. Jerusalem was founded by King David on the former Jebusite city of Jebus about 3,300 years ago when he renamed it and gave it a Jewish character.
Jerusalem has been both the political and spiritual capital of the Jewish people, the latter without interruption to the present through good and bad times.
c. Throughout the past 3,300 years Jerusalem has never been the capital of any other people, including the Arabs and Muslims, a remarkable fact considering the city has been conquered by so many different peoples.
2. Observations of some famous people about the connection of the Jewish people to Jerusalem:
a) “To a Muslim” observed British writer Christopher Sykes, “there is a profound difference between Jerusalem and Mecca or Medina. The latter are holy places containing holy sites.” Besides the Dome of the Rock, he noted, Jerusalem has no major Islamic significance. (The Dome of the Rock is built on the remains of the First and Second Jewish Temples.)
b) Sir Winston Churchill, former British Prime Minister, to diplomat Evelyn Shuckburgh, 1955:
“You ought to let the Jews have Jerusalem; it was they who made it famous.”
c) Sari Nusseibah, the PA’s former representative in Jerusalem:
“I would be blind to disclaim the Jewish connection to Jerusalem.” (Source: Bard, Mitchell G., Myths and Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, American Israeli Cooperative Enterprise Inc., 2002.)
3. Some Records of Jewish Presence in Jerusalem, 705 CE to 1967 CE.
705 CE-”From the time of Caliph Abdel-Malik (d. 705) and henceforth Jews were among those who guarded the walls of the Dome of the Rock.
In return, they were absolved from paying the poll tax imposed on all non-Muslims.
The Jews were employed in clearing the Haram area of waste.” Mujir al-din in his History of Jerusalem and Hebron.
863- This is the presumed date of the move of Yeshivat Eretz Israel from Tiberias to Jerusalem to become the central religious authority of the whole region.
The last of Jerusalem’s Ga’ons (sages) was Evyatar Ben Eliyahu Hacohen (1112).” Nathan Schur, History of Jerusalem.
1167-”Two hundred of those Jews dwell in one corner of the City, under the Tower of David.” Benjamin of Tudela in his famous Travels.
1395-”The Jews in the Holy City live in their own special residential areas.” Traveler Ogier D’Anglure in Le Saint Voyage de Jerusalem.
1499-”Among the very many Jews in Jerusalem I found several natives of Lombardy, three from Germany and two monks who had converted to Judaism.”
Arnold von Harff’s travelogue Die Pilgerfarht 1.
1546/47-”Many Jews dwell in Jerusalem and there is a special street of the Jews.” Ulrich Prefat of Slovenia in his chronicle.
1611-”And in this Land they [the Jews] live as strangers . . . open to all oppression and deprivation, which they bear with patience beyond all belief, despised and beaten. In spite of all this, I never saw a Jew with an angry face.” George Sandys, son of the Archbishop of York in Travails.
1751-”As 4,000 persons arrive yearly besides as many Jews who come from all quarters of the world.” Swedish traveler Frederick Hasselquist in Voyages and Travels in the Levant.
1860-First Jewish Quarter built outside the walls of Jerusalem.
1889-”Thirty thousand out of 40,000 people in Jerusalem are Jews . . . at present the Jews are coming here by the hundreds.” The Pittsburgh Dispatch, July 15, 1889.
1925-Hebrew University opened at Mount Scopus, Jerusalem.
1967-Arabs defeated in their new war against Israel – the Six Day War.
Jerusalem reunited. Western Wall and Temple Mount liberated.
(Source: Tal, Eliyahu, Whose Jerusalem, International Forum For A United Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, 1994.)
4. Israel’s Respect for Places of Worship of All Religions
With the exception of the period 1948-1967 Jerusalem has never been a physically divided city.
In 1948, the Jordanian Arab Legion under Glubb Pasha (really John Bagot, an Englishman) overran Jerusalem.
Jordan controlled the city from 1948 to 1967 and expelled all Jews.
The Jordanians made the ancient City of Jerusalem judenrein.
Under Jordanian rule the following occurred:
· Fifty-eight synagogues in the ancient Jewish Quarter -some centuries old- were destroyed and desecrated. The Jordanians turned some of them into stables and chicken coops.
· The Jordanian Arab Legion desecrated the ancient 2500-year-old Jewish cemetery on the nearby Mount of Olives. A road was built across the ancient cemetery to connect the Intercontinental Hotel to a highway. The Jordanian Arab Legion used tombstones of saintly rabbis for pavement and latrines.
· Despite a provision in the 1949 Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan, permitting Jews to visit their holy places, the Jordanians prohibited Jews from visiting the Western Wall in the Old City or the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. The Hebrew University on Mount Scopus and the Hadassah Hospital were all but cut off and the buildings left derelict.
· Despite Jordan’s dismal record of complete disrespect for hallowed Jewish holy places, the U.N. did not pass a single resolution decrying it. Compare this to the U.N.’s record of resolutions against Israel. In contrast, Israel’s treatment of all holy places in Jerusalem and her surroundings since 1967 has been exemplary. Former President Jimmy Carter said there is “no doubt” that Israel did a better job safeguarding access to the city’s holy places than did Jordan.
5. Jerusalem Population
Many are unaware that since around 1840, the Jews have constituted the majority of Jerusalem’s population.
Year Jews Muslims Christians Total
1844 7,120 5,000 3,390 15,510
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030
1896 28,112 8,560 8,748 45,420
1922 33,971 13,411 4,699 52,081
1931 51,222 19,894 19,335 90,451
1948 100,000 40,000 25,000 165,000
1967 195,700 54,963 12,646 263,309
1987 340,000 121,000 14,000 475,000
1990 378,200 131,800 14,400 524,400
2000 530,400 204,100 14,700 758,300
(Source: Bard, Mitchell G., Myths and Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, American Israeli Cooperative Enterprise Inc., 2002.)
6. Conclusion:
When the Jewish people claim Jerusalem as their Eternal City they are on solid ground with the strongest case possible.
No other people have claims to Jerusalem as strong as the Jewish people have.
The Jewish claim is the longest unbroken claim. Jerusalem is the one and only spiritual center of Judaism.
Jerusalem, in all its long history, has only been the capital of one people – the Jewish People.
Jews have constituted the majority of Jerusalem’s population for the last 160 years.
And, most importantly for the international community, Israel has by far the best record of protecting the holy places of all faiths, and in Jerusalem, the holy places of all religions are accorded proper respect.
Jerusalem is the logical capital of the State of Israel and all men of truth and good faith should recognize this as such.
Show me one thing like this the Israelis teach their children. Where’s Obama and Biden’s condemnation? Here three. I could point you to three thousand.
Palestinian TV: Inciting Children To “Commit a Massacre”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEcaI7zQG3E
Hamas Mickey Mouse Teaches Terror to Kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6lbFGC4&feature=fvw
Teaching Children to die for Allah in Palestine and Lebanon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-MnAYiEWk&feature=related
Another side to this story is whether we knew about Israel’s plans to build new settlements. If we did, it gives a whole new slant as to why Israel’s best friend Biden was sent; e.g., Israel may have assumed Biden would put the best face on the settlement policy once it was announced. If we didn’t know–which does seem unlikely–shame on our Intelligence folks.
Wow, I knew the Israeli PR effort was/is intense but I’m impressed. Obviously this and other blogs are monitored and there are folks who sit at the ready with Israeli talking points to defend its actions. We have had “Liberalastheycome” (amusing spin on the term Liberal since he/she refused to admit that Palestinians are people and calls anyone a racists who doesn’t toe the AIPAC line that the Palestinians are sub-human and need to be exterminated) for some time. Now their appears to be some reinforcement in the form of “lisalisalisa” who comes equipped with an encyclopedic listing of dates and references why Israel should own Jerusalem along with a hefty contempt for Obama since he’s not servile enough toward Israel. Its a tag team that deserves our respect and attention.
“LisaLisaLisa” is a good example of why we are where we are in regards to peace or any semblance of progress.
You know, mwfolsom, I’ve been getting the brunt of this stuff for a very long time. You should have seen my emails when I was writing about Chas Freeman.
East Jerusalem is occupied land, thus the Israelis have no business building settlements there. Nothing “LLL” says will change it. Though her dogged cut and paste job is impressive.
Sally says:
12 March 2010 at 7:49 am
There is no evidence that Obama or the White House new the announcement on building settlements was coming. It was a diplomatic insult planned and timed for impact. As Bibi’s boy Bush would say, mission accomplished.
First off mwfolsom, nice straw man argument. I was coming to this blog way before you. Israel does own Jerusalem. It was bought and paid for by King David. I notice you did not respond with any facts otherwise.
Taylor, I am a good example of someone who uses facts and not empty rhetoric and talking points to discuss a subject. Let’s hear your facts showing East Jerusalem belongs to anyone else instead of ignoring mine.
mwlofsom, when did I ever say that the Palestinians are “subhuman”? You are a bit sick in the head and I would like to see you point out any blog in which I have said that.
What I have said time and time again is that I am for a 2-STATE solution with a state of Israel and its neighbor, Palestine. Ultimately, Israel will have to dismantle some settlements and make other painful compromises, such as pulling 8,000 citizens out of Gaza in 2005; the Palestinian Arabs will have to accept that Israel is here to stay and thrive as a neighbor in the Middle East.
I am for a 2-state solution just like President Obama, the UN, and anyone outside of this blog and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. I called Imhotep a racist bigot because of his statement that Jews were responsible for their own suffering over the past 2,000 years. I knew he had a lot in common with Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul, but I didn’t know that David Duke was a hero of his as well. Shame.
The reason that
Israel does own Jerusalem. It was bought and paid for by King David.
This is just embarrassing. It’s the 21st century, with a new reality, Ms LLL.
I have absolutely *no* intention of honoring religious ramblings as facts. Historic literalism is arcane and irrelevant to modern history. You’re part of the problem, LLL, and content to stay that way. Israelis will pay the price if people like you continue.
Taylor,
I’m wondering if you had posted any rebuke to Imhotep’s comments about the Jewish people being responsible for thousands of years of expulsions, pogroms, and genocides against them.
These bigoted statements have no place on a reputable blog such as yours.
What lisalisalisa didn’t tell us is that the Zionists have stored in a safe place the original deed to Jerusalem, and the rest of the Levant, signed by God Him/Herself. But seriously folks, until 1967 a lot of groups “owned” Jerusalem over the centuries. The Romans, the Arabs, the Turks, the Knights Templar and the British to name a very few. For anyone interested in a fairly decent discussion concerning the history of Jreusalem, Andrew Sinclair’s “Jerusalem, The Endless Crusade” is quite readable. lisalisalisa comes at this issue from the hardline Zionist point of view which is as infecund as is the point of view of the most hardline anti-Semite. Which means that it’s pretty worthless. Peace
Imhotep, the “most hardline anti-Semite” accurately describes yourself with your statement that the Jews have caused their own misery over the past thousand years. Peace
Liberalastheycome, don’t most people cause their own misery? Aren’t we all responsible for our own actions? Having said that I find it unforgivable that any government, organization or group would single out any other group or individual for punishment because of their beliefs (religious or philosophical), ethnicity, gender or age. Now you tell me, given my last statement, how you see me as an anti-Semite? By the way you are aware aren’t you that Arabs are also Semites? Has to do with Isaac and Ishmael. Peace
Okay, Imhotep, you are truly a few french fries short of a happy meal. You yourself are the one who used the term “anti-Semite” I have stopped using this term because it immediately provokes a response from characters such as yourself that Arabs are also Semites, even though the term Anti-Semite has historically been tied to Anti-Jewish bias.
So now that we are done splitting hairs, YOU are an Anti-Jewish bigot, NOT because your Israel-is-the-worst-country-in-human-history policy, but because of your statement that the Jews are responsible for all hatred against them over the past thousand years. In your eyes, Jews are responsible for the Inquisition, pogroms, and numerous exiles imposed against them, not to mention the Holocaust.
No wonder you are such a fan of fellow Anti-Jewish bigots such as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. David Duke probably would approve of all of your nasty rhetoric as well. Peace
Liberalastheycome says:
12 March 2010 at 11:06 am
I’ve challenged Imhotep on his over the top arguments against Israel *many* times. His worst efforts speak for themselves. Rebut them.
Liberalastheycome, find one comment that I have ever made using the phrase “anti-Semite.” Just one. I dare you. Unfortunately, your faulty memory is exceeded only by your inability to read. My 11:46 comment spells out pretty clearly that all of those things that you claim that I hold the Jews responsible for I do not. Let me say it one more time. It is unforgivable for any governmet, organization or group to punish any other group or individual for their beliefs (religious or philosophical), ethnicity, gender or age. Pogroms and the Holocaust would therefore not be the fault of the Jews. Clear? Now here is a riddle: “The Jews are not the men that will be blamed for nothing.” Who said that? Peace
Imhotep says:
12 March 2010 at 11:06 am
lisalisalisa comes at this issue from the hardline Zionist point of view which is as infecund as is the point of view of the most hardline anti-Semite.
wow, that was hard.
This is why you are an Anti-Jewish racist jerk:
Imhotep says:
10 March 2010 at 7:21 pm
Israel has never wanted Peace. Didn’t want it in 1948. Didn’t want it in 1998. Doesn’t want it now. Won’t want it ten years from now. Israel doesn’t do Peace. Hasn’t done it for 6000 years. Which is why, over the centuries, people keep burning them out and throwing them into captivity. Read the history.
Pure bigotry and you should be ashamed of yourself. Here catch, it’s your white hood.
Taylor, I don’t understand your argument. What does “It’s the 21st century, with a new reality” mean? That land deeds are no longer valid? What do you base your claim that Israel does not own Jerusalem on? And what does “Israel will pay the price” mean? Are we in some facist state where if I opine, some bad thing happens?
Anyway I’m done. I’m an American Jew with just as much right to my opinion as anyone. You want to shut down conversation with psychological babble about “new realities”, insults and weird vague threats, fine with me. You’re not as cool as you think you are.
Good luck Liberalastheycome.
hey Taylor, one other thing. See what your Obama pandering has done to your website stats? How’s that working out for you?
http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=400&h=220&o=f&c=1&y=t&b=ffffff&r=2y&u=taylormarsh.com&
Lisa,
I don’t know what your problem is with Obama, I think that he has been an incredible friend to Israel and this is coming not out of my mouth, but out of Michael Oren and PM Netanyahu.
Taylor’s site is great and although I have disagreements with her on Israel, notably her lack of evenhandedness, she is respectful, unlike others on this site such as the racist Imhotep.
Taylor:
There is simply no need to get into a debate with either of the representatives of the Israeli Government – they are here to spread the world that Israel is without sin.
Let me be utterly blunt – I bear no ill will to the people of Israel but I deeply resent the fact that the foreign policy of my own government is held hostage by Israeli interests. My desire is to see the US extracted from this mess and to stop the massive transfer of wealth from the American People to the Israeli Government (30+ billion a year) to subsidize the oppression of the Palestinian People. The hatred the Arab street has toward the United States is in large part fueled by the fact that they rightly see the US as lapdogs to the Israeli Government. In their eyes it is not only Israel that is oppressing the Palestinian people it is the US and they hate us because of that mindless support.
Once we and our $’s are out of there hopefully calmer heads will rule and they will all figure out how to live with each other. As long as we stand in the background and prevent Israel from suffering any consequences from its acts this disaster will continue. Sooner or later either Israel will either have to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank or it will have to live with the Palestinian People. Every Palestinian school child that is needlessly killed by the IDF, every olive tree that is bulldozed because of greed and the hatred the Israeli Gov has for the Palestinians, every white phosphorous shell that the IDF uses in Gaza and the West Bank make peace less possible. Personally I believe that the deal is already done – one side or the other will wipe the other off the face of the map. I just want to have the US out of the mess when that happens.
mwolfsome, your hatred for Israel is unabashed and you are hardly worth debating.
Please tell me however why Abbas walked away from Olmert’s offer to give Palestinians 97% of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and compensation for refugees?
To you Israel-haters, there is only one problem in the world, the state of Israel. There is no fault on the part of the Palestinian Arabs or the Arab world in general for a lack of peace, no problems caused by Bin Laden or Ahmadinejad. To some blatant Anti-Jewish bigots like Imhotep, Jews have been responsible for their problems even before the state of Isael was born.
There will never be peace without evenhandedness from the international community, and that includes getting tough on the Arab states as well as the Israelis.
Personally, I am grateful that Israel exists, and hope that it finds peace with its neighbors. I can’t say the same for mwolfsom and Imhotep. Shame.