I would really love it if a 3rd Party actually “occurred” but there are several reason I believe it won’t – chief among them are history and form of Government. I lived for 5+ years in Canada and watched their Parliamentary Gov operate. One of the best Gov’s I ever saw while there was a coalition Gov. formed by the Conservative Party (majority component) and the NDP (minority component). Please understand that the Conservatives in Canada are to the Left of Obama and the NDP is way to the left of 99% of the Democratic Party. So what did the folks in Canada get – a fairly sane Administration – careful on financial matters and progressive on social matters. That happened because they have a Parliamentary system – we don’t. To make matters worse we have no tradition of power sharing in our system. So that’s why you can’t grow a 3rd Party in the US – its automatically a “spoiler” till it replaces one of the two established parties.

When you said “your failure to support those who most closely align with your beliefs is actually support for the opposition” you seem to be concerned about my decision to “opt out” of automatically voting for any Democrat the system spits out since it would be helping the Republicans. Unfortunately this is true no matter if I simply don’t vote or vote for a 3rd Party candidate – the results are exactly the same. Sadly this is the dynamic we face and the one any 3rd Party Candidate would also face – yet another reason why a the establishment of a real 3rd Party isn’t likely. Because of all this the only way we could ever get to a 3rd Party is for it to spring fully formed out of thin air and simply replace one of he other major Parties (see paragraph above).

I can see no way around it – either the Progressives in the Democratic Party remain a Doormat or they stand back, let the system know they won’t play anymore and frankly let Republican win. There simply are no other options and the Elites in the Democratic Party understand and use this against us.

I am 55 years old and have been playing the “lesser of two evils game” for way too long. All that has done is allow the Democratic Party to move further and further to the right. I’ve worked hard for the Party and think my rights are as great as any DINO out there. The sad fact I haven’t realized till now is that the only functional difference between Progressives and DINOs in the eyes of the Party Elites is that they will walk and so far I haven’t. That’s the big difference and it can’t be refuted. So, tell me who will any Democratic Politician pay attention to? The one that always supports them or the one they have to work to keep?

The moment Progressives walk the game changes and the Democratic Party will have to pay attention to us – until that happens we are and will remain doormats.

Of course, since you don’t actually have another option, your failure to support those who most closely align with your beliefs is actually support for the opposition — it is cutting of your nose . . . You’re right that it’s a messed up situation, but do you really want another King George in office? We may never recover!

We are so used to the two-party tango that it seems we can’t even envision what a healthy system would look like anymore. I can tell you this though, just the existence of a major third party would break the back and forth, “either/or” mentality. It would necessitate honest dialog, which is the key ingredient missing from today’s version of American politics.

Let me just say this: I don’t know you or how closely our political views are aligned. Just from reading your posts, I assume that you’re probably a little further left than I, but I could be completely wrong. The really cool thing is that it doesn’t matter. You sound like an intelligent person who’s capable of both voicing your opinion and listening to others — add a willingness to engage in dialog, and I’m certain we could find a common ground.

The problem isn’t the left, and it’s not even the right. The problem is a propensity for finger pointing, name calling and plain old hyperbole. It’s party line BS and it serves nobody but the politicians themselves.

The solution is to first admit that there are always trade-offs to be made, and second to have the conversation needed to decide on them. Everyone needs to climb out of their trenches, shake hands and start the serious work of resolution.

Walking is just another round of the never-ending cycle that plagues our Country. The only people that win in that scenario are that upper 1% — they created the stalemate and are perfectly happy to keep it intact.

You say that a third party won’t happen. I’m not so sure.

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http://www.thinkersjam.com
I think, therefore I jam

I would happily dump the Democratic Party if there were a third option but there isn’t and frankly won’t be. Its far easier to assert our ownership of the Democratic Party than to build a new one.

Frankly we have the power to “reform” the Democratic Party anytime we want to but unless we are willing to use it we have no power. Your post really lays out the problem quite well – when you say “please don’t forsake your own best interest and all the crazies on the right to gain back hard-fought ground.” you are essentially telling us that its best to cave. Its a sad fact but we have allowed the Elites of the Dem Party to put us in a situation where we either walk and let the crazies win or give in. I call it the “doormat dilemma” and the progressives in the Democratic Party have let things escalate to a point where we are going to have to kill off part of the Democratic Party to save it. There aren’t any other options. Its not like we get offered half a loaf or even a third of a loaf. We are getting no part of a loaf and until we walk that’s all we will ever get.

Have you noticed that its always the progressives that have to give in? Please ask yourself why? Well we know that answer – the blue dogs will walk and the system knows it so we will always loose and they will always win. Until you and I are willing to walk the Democratic Party will move more and more to the right.

Abortion is possibly the most complicated and emotional issues we have as a people. I am personally anti-war, opposed to the death penalty and against abortion. But I understand that some wars must be fought (neither of our two present campaigns) and that abortion is sometimes the only legitimate option.

I will personally stand in support of a woman’s right to choose and against any nonsense prohibiting federal money to fund such. But at the same time, I will demand that policy support appropriate choice, educate the people involved, deter misuse and offer real alternative options.

Please tell me, am I just off base? It seems to ne that the conversation has to change; that we need to stop choosing sides and find a way to work toward real solutions. Personally, I think a third major political part is the answer, but until we get there, please don’t forsake your own best interest and all the crazies on the right to gain back hard-fought ground.

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http://www.thinkersjam.com
I think, therefore I jam

Edit

Sadly they both are already over – nobody is willing to admit it!

By-the-by, I ask again where is NARAL and their supporters? Why aren’t they raising hell about this?

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ve been saying this for years – Women, Progressives, Gays/Lesbian, Enviromentalist, & etc have been doormats to the Democratic Elites for years. Until WE, i.e. the group above, are willing to walk away from the Dems and let them loose they don’t have to pay us any attention at all.

Honestly, you used to be one of my 3 favorite blogs; now it’s like getting on some foreign blog I’ve never seen. My only question is this; once you help put in the Romney’s, Palin’s and Ryan’s of the world, will you still bitch and moan so much? Because that’s where we are headed. Jesus, you sound like some talking head like Luntz, who is doing everything he can, through language, to make sure Dems lose out in 2010 and 2012.

I too am not happy with some things Obama has not done, but you just look ridiculous posing that voting for them is just as bad as voting for the Rebugs. Let’s just ignore the things he has done, shall we and focus on just the things you don’t like. Let’s continue to hold a grudge over the primary in ’08…

Here’s to voting for the Repubs in 2012, because, well, the Dems aren’t doing everything we want and the Rebugs will do everything they said they would do. Yeah, that sounds like good logic to me. Sign me up.

I know I’ll be burned on the cross over this, but I don’t care anymore. Your seething hatred and anger of HC losing is still with you today, obviously, and it makes you look petty. Gone is the day of Ms. Independent Journalism. Gone, gone, gone.

That’s the money shot isn’t it? I say abolish ALL taxe exemption for ALL religious/superstitious activities, donations and properties. UNLESS they allow it for ALL superstitions/religions and ALL activities and properties with superstitious/religious conotations.
If the GOVERNMENT says Chatholic is taxe exempt but Pastaferian ISN’T haven’t they ESTABLISHED Chatholic as a REAL religion and denied Pastaferian is NOT? ISN’T THAT DOING EXACTLY WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS CONGRESS SHALL NOT DO?!!!!!

Let us not forget nor neglect to mention the latest GAY PROSTITUTION RING being worked from THE POPE’S OWN attendents!!!!!!! These people have GOT to be fu*king kidding!

Beth in suburban Chicago says: ” why is it OK to say, Roe Vs. Wade is long-standing law. So is the Hyde amendment. Like it or not, it is accepted part of US law. (I would say that many anti-abortion types would say, like it or not, it’s accepted part of US law.)”

Because your friends and apparently you don’t understand the fifferance between Supreme Court rullings regarding “CIVIL RIGHTS” for ALL Americans as opposed to legeslated laws by the legeslature regarding FUNDING.

“Abortion is a very tricky issue. You see it as reproductive rights. While I am pro-choice, I have too many pro-life friends to see it in just that way.”
Abortion is only a “tricky” question if you are trying to impose YOUR superstition based views and feelings upon another person. If you are against abortion and you’re a woman DON’T HAVE ONE. If you’re against abortion and you’re a man, do like the repugnantklan elected officials or the Pope’s personnal assistant do, GO GAY or if hetero KEEP YOUR ZIPPER UP!
As for your having to pay for mammograms, so your point is there should never be any progress or redress for past wrongs or unfair behavior?

Your post illustrates very clearly the poor job done in the past regarding education in CIVICS and how our government works.

This is not optimal to me, but it wasn’t before, either. I also remember a time where I had to pay more for mammograms, because insurance wouldn’t cover it. It was maybe 1 year, or two — I was VERY not happy, but I did it. Not everything is covered by insurance. It never was and it never will be.

Abortion is a very tricky issue. You see it as reproductive rights. While I am pro-choice, I have too many pro-life friends to see it in just that way. It’s just a very emotional issue fraught with factors thaat go beyond covering XYand Z. It just is.

I have just one questions…..wouldn’t the catholic Bishops/churches direct negotiations violate their tax exemption status? I’m just saying….if they want to participate so directly then they should lose their exemption status…..and judging from all that money they lost from those settlements for the priest playing “Hide the Hot tomalley” with those alter boys….just maybe they would want to STFU about women’s productive rights until they can correct their moral compass….

I have just one questions…..wouldn’t the catholic Bishops/churches direct negotiations violate their tax exemption status? I’m just saying….if they want to participate then they should lose their so directly then they should lose their exemption status…..and judging from all that money they lost from those settlements for the priest playing “Hide the Hot tomalley” with those alter boys….just maybe they would want to STFU about women’s productive rights until they can correct their moral compass….

Obama’s policies on Gitmo, executive branch power, refusing to hold Bush officials accountable for torture, the selling out of health care reform to the pharmaceutical and insurance industry while sticking it to poor women, doing little to nothing for gay rights (oh yeah, they are going to take a few years to “study” what effect repealing DADT will have), backtracking on holding the KSM terror trial in NY Federal District Court, pursuing the same hawkish foreign policy, no human rights policy to speak of, no financial reform and on and on and on. People like Rahm Emanuel take the progressive base for granted precisely because come 2012, they will argue that we’d be worse off with a Republican in office. It may be time to turn the tables on them and we are already seeing that with so many progressives speaking out against almost everything the admin. is doing. Rahm better reconsider his strategy because Republican Lite isn’t a platform for change, it’s a sell-out.

democratz, I am in full agreement that actions are needed; I honestly don’t know how effective boycotts can be, but I’m guessing a multi-pronged effort is required, and boycotts are certainly one tactic. I don’t read or hear discussions about what’s happening, efforts to understand and analyze, as unproductive “complaints.” Of course, there is the danger that we never get any further than the conversations, but I don’t think it’s an either / or choice.

In this climate of companies that control companies progressives need to petition the companies that have funded conservaties in congress.

Contact these 2 companies and demand that their CEOs to get the Catholic Bishops to back off and to get Stupak to withdraw his amendment and Ben Nelson withdraw his antichoice amendment and until that happens you refuse to do business with Dominos Pizza and Curves for women’s health clubs.

I also believe people can find a national profile company from Michigan, where Stupak comes from and start a boycott of that company and get Stupak to withdraw all antichoice amendments and that you will boycott their products until Stupak backs off.

Then again most people will not do this, so wallow in your antichoice compants but do not blame me.

http://www.democratz.org

That said, the #1 rule of negotiations is that the only deal you have a chance of winning is the one that you’re willing to walk away from.

Because Republicans are worse?

Sorry, but that’s a terrible strategy. A terrible, pathetic, self-loathing, ineffective strategy.

In fact, I would argue that the “Vote D because the R’s are so much worse.” is responsible for the mess the Dems are in today. After all, why should they put up a fight or fulfill their promises when you aren’t willing to walk away?

This isn’t about facts with Mr. Stupak, as it never is with abortion.

Though I hope everyone will read the comment I posted from HuffPost from a conservative. It’s very interesting.

(More change you can believe in).

Edit

Stupak is enjoying his 15 minutes of fame while he blurs the line between Church and State. I guess the GOP and Blue Dogs only like minimal government interference when it might get in the way of insurance, Wall Street and Big Pharma profits. But when it comes to reproductive freedom or issues like Terri Schiavo, they looooooooove a big, meddlesome government.

And what’s worse, Stupak is a liar:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/05/bart-stupak-abortion-clai_n_488085.html