–important updates below–
“I strongly disagree with Bart,” Dingell said during an appearance on MSNBC. “I think he’s wrong.” – The Hill
One of the more unconscionable things Mr. Stupak is doing is lying about the current (bad) legislation. He’s telling his colleagues that women using their own money in the exchanges will be able to buy insurance coverage that pays for abortion. There is no abortion funding in the current bad bill. What Mr. Stupak wants to do is move one step forward to outlawing abortion through health care legislation, one step at a time.
As an aside, Rep. Stupak’s scheduled 11 a.m. press conference was postponed due to what’s being called “a scheduling conflict.” You decipher it.
From NRO, for what it’s worth:
Two pro-life GOP members close to Stupak tell NRO that any Stupak deals are off. They just spoke with him and they said he’s finished with Pelosi. They rejected his enrollment corrections proposal.
Congress members, we’re finding out through the health care debate, aren’t very bright and since this legislation is complex, with the exchanges making things worse, all sorts of things can be said to frighten the ignorant.
It’s unconscionable that men who call themselves “liberal” are saying women should suck Stupak language up in the name of a bad health care bill that is much less than Democrats should accept. But that’s what we’re hearing from “progressive” men.
Michael Moore is one of the only powerfully visible males to decide Bart Stupak had gone too far, writing today a wonderful essay on the idiocy of Mr. Stupak’s position.
[...] Because it isn’t about “universal health care.” It’s about controlling women, period. It’s about sticking your nose in other people’s business. It’s about pushing your religious beliefs on everyone else because voices in your head tell you your Jesus is The One — even though your Jesus never said one single solitary word in any of the four gospels of the Bible about abortion or fertilized eggs being human. You’ve just gone and made it up about “life beginning at conception.” Jesus never said that. The little voice in your head said that, the same little voice that wants your grubby paws on women’s uteruses. You need help. Please get some help and leave the rest of us alone, Mr. Stupak and friends.
After all, isn’t it enough that women can’t get an abortion in any of the 31 Michigan counties you represent in Congress? There is not one single abortion provider here in the north of the state, according to Planned Parenthood Mid and South Michigan. Hey, Bart — you’ve already won! Women’s rights have been stamped out in your entire Congressional district! Woo hoo! …
Enter John Dingell, a powerful, longtime force in the House, who is getting the message from women that we understand compromise, because we’re asked to do it all the time, but Bart Stupak’s language and his insistence that he’s more important than the majority who support women’s self-determination is one step way too far.
Veteran Democratic Rep. John Dingell vowed Saturday to work to defeat fellow Michigan Rep. Bart Stupak (D) on abortion in the healthcare bill. [...] “I’m going to try to show him the error of his ways, and I’m also going to try to see to it that we beat him on this,” Dingell said on MSNBC. “Because this is a matter of the utmost humanitarian and economic concern to this nation.”
Things remain fluid, with there still a strong probability that the Democrats will still pull this off. However, they need to do it without caving to Bart Stupak.
UPDATE II (12:44): Obama and Dem leaders trying end around with executive order, via Marc Ambinder:
@marcambinder End Around: RT WH & Dem leaders floating trial balloon in press of exec order to clarify abortion funding policy. #women #hcr
UPDATE (12:17): From TPM:
Just off the House floor moments ago, Pelosi told reporters there will be “no separate vote” on abortion or any other measure.
20 March 2010 11:30 am by Taylor Marsh “Things remain fluid, with there still a strong probability that the Democrats will still pull this off. However, they need to do it without caving to Bart Stupak.”
That’s right.
“Enter John Dingell, a powerful, longtime force in the House, who is getting the message from women that we understand compromise, because we’re asked to do it all the time, but Bart Stupak’s language and his insistence that he’s more important than the majority who support women’s self-determination is one step way too far.”
Not to mention it’s against the Democratic Party platform. Stupak is going way beyond Hyde.
How do the “exchanges make things worse”??? Peace
It’s a concentrated ins. market pool where the OPM, Office of Public Management, will negotiate with non-profits that will be only marginally better prices, but still will not have any real competition or consumer safeguards, which Congress wiped out. It’s a band-aid effect to make people feel better so that Congress can say there is competition when there really isn’t any to speak of. The insurance will still be expensive, forced on you, and administered by the same companies that have failed so far.
See update. Pelosi said “no deal” with Stupak or anybody else.
Lots of questions answered on what’s going on and the way forward at OpenCongress:
http://www.opencongress.org/
Meanwhile, Orin Hatch:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aghrqNBEBtIc
“If those people think they’re only going to vote on this once, they’re nuts,” Hatch said as House Democratic leaders rounded up support before the scheduled vote on President Barack Obama’s top domestic priority.
Jane takes on some myths she perceives to be in the health care bill and debunks them
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/fact-sheet-the-truth-abou_b_506026.html
I believe in his interview with Fox the President stated this bill did not fix everything but it was a start.
Fact: The President has never been for universal health care.
Ri-ight.
…and it’s “a start” to offer an executive order on abortion that isn’t needed, too.
If you think the current bad bill is even close to universal health care you need to read more closely, kris.
I don’t believe it is Taylor and have never made that claim. It’s a very small limited bill that really does next to nothing. It certainly does not address cost containment and delivery of servces, but I thought the argument for sometime now has been the moral bankruptcy of this country to not have people insured.
So if we insure 31 million more at the cost of a trillion dollars, what’s the problem? We will have moved towards being a more moral country.
I’d agree if they weren’t being FORCED INTO A MONOPOLY SYSTEM administered by the same people who got us into this mess.
It’s immoral to force people to buy something so personal as health insurance that is expensive, has little consumer protections, and is taxed ridiculously.
As I’ve said to colleagues in DC working on this, I understand the POLITICS for politicians. That’s not my gig. I also understand that it’s going to likely pass. But I have no intention of lying to people that it’s a good bill that should be passed.
I don’t care about Democrats or Obama on this one.
It’s a bad bill.
And the “devil is in the details.” This bill may pass but down the pike people are going to find out just what is and isn’t covered in their insurance policies.
In addition the cost is bogus as it does not (deliberatly) address the doc fix. The Dems did not want doc fix in what they presented to the CBO as it would have blown their numbers sky high and they couldn’t have that.
That sounds like a Republican argument Taylor.
UHC or single payer would “force” everyone into insurance as well at a cost to everyone. The reality is if you just want cost containment then UHC or single payer is not for you.
Yeah, you got me, kris, I’m a Republican. Except that Rep. say they don’t want any gov. intervention in health ins. Nice try.
I never said I was for single-payer, not once.
In point of fact that is the argument that they make. Prove me wrong.
I’ve written about hcr for a long time, so I don’t feel required to “prove” anything to anyone. If that is your assessment at this point I’ll leave you to it.
Didn’t mean to piss you off Taylor but we are already taxed to pay for Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health program, etc. I don’t see any differences at all. There has to be a test run of something and because this bill is “small ball” the outcome should be a predictor of future changes.
Kris, then why is it that health costs as percentage of GNP is much lower in countries which have single-payer? The U.S. is the only country without single-payer or something very close, and its health care costs are far the highest in the world.
also, their outcomes are much poorer than in many of the single-payer countries, one example being Canada…life expectancy, things like that.
In other words, U.S. is paying more (as percentage of economy) and getting less than single-payer countries
The fact is Pilgrim for this country to institute a single payer system would require politics to remain out of it and as we have seen in the last year, it’s just not a possibility. And I support a single payer system. I really don’t have a dog in this hunt but have come to believe that we have to start somewhere.
It will be interesting to watch how this is implemented, both financially and institutionally. That will tell us alot about if we are capable of achieving single payer or UHC or whatever one wants to label it.
Taylor Marsh says:
20 March 2010 at 12:26 pm
Good news. Yea!
I really feel bad about the bind the American people are in over this.
I believe there was a huge political uproar when medicare was instituted in Canada about sixty years ago. I think it started with provinces, and in fact it is still the provinces but there is also the Canada Health Act which sets certain overall standards. For example, if a private hospital is attempted, the province’s money from the fed. gov’t can be cut off. There have been such skirmishes with British Columbia, for example.
Tommy Douglas (a Baptist preacher and charismatic politician with a strong social conscience) was the big push for medicare many years ago.
He is now regarded (and has been voted) as “the greatest Canadian.”
“It’s immoral to force people to buy something so personal as health insurance that is expensive, has little consumer protections, and is taxed ridiculously.”
There will be blood, whether literally or figuratively speaking or both. People like Kris obviously a) already have health insurance, and b) have never had to depend on it. What galls me is that nobody polled the so-called 32 million. I’m one of them, 64 years old and without health insurance for the last six years. I simply couldn’t afford it, even with a $2,000 deductible, AND it did no good. IT DID NO GOOD. Even with the insurance, if I’d taken a hike and broken my leg or been bitten by a rattlesnake, the out of pocket costs would have been devastating. If you have insurance and something happens to you, what’s the difference between devastating and only a little less devastating? Not bloody much.
No other country in the world requires its citizens to buy insurance from for-profit corporations. Where purchase is mandated, there’s a non-profit government alternative. The mandate in this bill is the kiss of death for whatever little integrity the government had left. They are inviting outrage at the very least, and beyond that, the unspeakable–now that we can no longer say what we really feel in public, thanks to Obama’s commitment to crushing civil liberties just like Bush.
That last paragraph, how very, very true.
But the U.S. gov’t could throw trucloads of money at Iraq to ensure the people of that country could keep the universal health care before Bush invaded them to “liberate” them.
Right Pilgrim.
On a downthread I made a comment, maybe we could end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and spend some money at home for things this country desperately needs.
So you are not for the current bill I take it. Are you for single payer, UHC or for the system remaining the same?
Well TaosJohn -
There won’t be blood. And as for me, seeing you know zero about me, just a little clue. I have had insurance through my employers through the years. Sometimes good coverage, but increasingly in the last few years, not so good.
I am currently unemployed as I was laid off from my job. There was no way I could afford COBRA even with the federal subsidy. Luckily for me my partner is employed by a company that offers domestic partner coverage, so yep I have coverage. However my partner is taxed as income for providing me what I have. It’s inherently unfair and needs to be changed.
Gotta run for awhile.
“The House is going to vote on the Senate bill, foregoing the controversial “Slaughter Solution” that would have allowed members to avoid voting directly on the Senate legislation, which many House Democrats have problems with, according to lawmakers leaving an afternoon whip meeting.
For more information…http://www.politico.com”
from my e-mail – I didn’t find the link on politico
Taylor – thanks for keeping us up to date on the health care issue. I have to run out now and then and when I come back I love to see that you have put something new up. And your links are awesome!
get this the pro choice and progressive caucuses got stupak deal killed. how? by threatening themslves to derail the bill without a puib opt vote. thats all they needed- the threat of po becomming law got leadership to call off stupak deal. its crazy!
http://www.openleft.com/diary/17925/democrats-will-not-use-deem-and-pass
Just watched the President’s remarks to the Democratic House Caucus. I thought he was very good and I think he’s right. Although I am disappointed in what I think we could have had (I am a single payer supporter), I do think of all those who currently don’t have any health insurance. I do like the idea of Medicaid expansion as well. Hopefully, the bill, in time, will be improved upon. It’s a start.
That is what kills me lynnette. All of this time and struggle. The congress people who will probably lose their jobs over their vote.The obvious fact that Obama can move people when he choses to do so.All for a bad bill! Why not go down in flames for something real?
Single payer paid for by a VAT tax(groceries excluded)burden shared by all,benefits for all. It would have to be basic preventitive care and catastrophic care. People could buy any level of supplimentary insurance they wanted to just like seniors do.It does not seem so hard to me if we were not trying to prop up the greedy insurance industry…that’s what all the complexity is about.
maxine waters is a kcik ass! she stared down pelosi and stupak by offering a amendment for the pub opt and has even leaked the text to huffpo! and guess what- pelosi then announced she was cutting no deal with stupak . so waters got pelosi to stop the deal knowing how terrified the eladership is of the po for whatever reason. also it shows how progressives will keep fighting every day for a public option. as waters said progressives feel as passionate about the po as the they hated the iraq war. it that feeling obama has miscalculated on.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/19/health-care-whip-count-li_n_505709.html
I love Maxine!
I have been hearing on tv that most of the good stuff don’t start in the health care bill until 2014. I can’t believe they are going to mandate us to buy health insurence if you don’t have it. I have also been hearing that states are going to sue the federal government if the bill passes. I don’t no what the states can do if they think the federal government is breaking the constitution. Even after the bill is passed were going to be hearing about it for along time. Goodness how much more of this can we take !!!
in the end this bill may be struck down by the supremes bc of the mandate for buying something private. its a strong case. the only consititutional way ive read may be single payer as emdciare was ruled consitutional by the courts etc..
think about this- for all the talk about govt etc in the end it will be govt that will cover more people in this bill. 16 million will get an expanded and improved medicaid. 25 million will get hcr through 10,000 new pub health clinics across the nation. some 21 million would get private ins through the exchange but that part im not sure will hold up in court.
texan4hillary says:
20 March 2010 at 4:49 pm
Good for Maxine Waters. Interesting.
fairmindedindependant says:
20 March 2010 at 4:51 pm I can’t believe they are going to mandate us to buy health insurence if you don’t have it.
That’s where all of those subsidies are going to be important. I hope they extend to enough people to make it affordable. If not, people will still be going to emergency rooms, as I see it.
Okay who knows anything about Obama issuing a presidential order reinforcing the Hyde admentment??
Well, there may be an executive order signed by Obama , the details I am not sure of, but I think to reinforce Hyde and pacify some of the Stupak crowd. My understanding is that it wouldn’t go beyond Hyde. I don’t think it will include any Stupak language. It had better not.
The very idea makes me livid!
Lake Lady,
Here’s some more info. on that executive order: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/rep-jan-schakowsky-50-dem_n_507044.html
admendment
mcjoan on dkos says if obama is going to do this uneeded deed on hyde- and lets face it hyde is law why we need an exec order makes no sense and is in no way needed- then he may as well clarify women wont have to write 2 checks for hcr ins. have the ins cos desginated to seperate out the money not humiliate women. the pro choice caucus says they have to approve of whatever obama is oging to write and i think its something women grps must push obama to do if this really is the road we face.
Obama is a Democratic President and he has to appease Stupak!For him NARAL cut Hillary off at the knees. F*** him and the unity pony he road in on…I’m going to visit some PUMA sites.
Yup.
I’m not sure the executive order is going to happen but I think it is being considered. I don’t know why the Stupak crowd has to be pacified, either.
updated: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/20/degette-agrees-to-executive-order-language-on-behalf-of-pro-choice-community/
So Obama is going to make the Hyde admendment permanent and that is considered a win by the pro choice caucus???
They are speculating over at FDL that the Stupak holdout is over defunding PP as in Acorn.
Seriously,I think the people over at The Confluence deserve an apology.They had Obama pegged all along.They aren’t the crazy fringe or bitter knitters they are liberals who reject the Democratic Party. Only one of their bloggers supported McCain and she is hardly ever there.
Throwing pro choice off the boat,union busting in education,continuing the war machine and the constitutional abuses,letting Wall Street call the tune on regulations, feeding people to the insurance industry maw…quite a party.
I gotta go to bed before my head explodes. Nite lynette.
the exec order will be shown to the dem caucus prior to the vote says politico. why would this order appease the stupak crowd though? they want way more for sure. oh and enough of the stupak bloc is holding with 32 firm nos. need 39 to kill it. cnn says obama has bill clinton one on one with blue dogs on the bill. and that is right now. waldman on dkos has a good point- the gop now has a way to blow up this bill. how? they can introduce before the vote something to recommit to the bill. this could be perhaps the stupak language- all hell would then break lose on the floor. if that happens th epro choice block must kill the bill. worse- all this will be determined a matter of a few hours on live tv giving womens rts grps little time to reposnd to fast moving surpirses. the gop would be stupid to not drop their atom bomb on the bill as they can by the rules. im growing leary again that this bill can pass. we are down to hard core stupakies now. the bill is ransomed. again i do not know why stupakies will settle for an exec order here when stupak can have his pro life gop buds blow it up. so is my thinking.
http://www.openleft.com/diary/17930/on-eve-of-vote-its-still-about-the-size-of-the-stupak-bloc
kris says:
20 March 2010 at 1:49 pm
People often take my bluntness for something it isn’t.
Your comments didn’t piss me off at all.
Lake Lady says:
20 March 2010 at 11:09 pm
I have the feeling, from watching Stupak on t.v. this a.m., that the executive order is going to be a confirmation of Hyde, and hopefully, nothing more. Stupak said it was not an expansion of Hyde. We’ll see. This is why women need to really get active about this and make their voices heard because even Democratic men are willing to sell them out on the abortion issue. It’s not right, but it’s true. We need the Congress (and Supreme Court, for that matter) to be 50% female. We cannot take our rights for granted, especially younger women. This is a real wake up call, IMO.