In a CBS poll taken before Obama’s Republican health care bill passed, it’s clear the American people saw what was going on. Stupak’s dramatic grandstanding that brought an executive order so he could save face was the finale after the White House final pitch, which was to “save Obama’s presidency” by not handing Pres. Obama a domestic legislative failure on an issue Democrats had taken over a year to pass. As for what the people wanted, a public option, Democrats ignored them, putting politics over the policy people preferred. From the CBS poll:
Asked why Democrats worked to pass a health care bill, 57 percent said “mostly political reasons.” Just 35 percent said it was because Democrats think the bill is good policy.
Americans had an even more cynical view of Republican motivations: Sixty-one percent said Republicans were acting on the basis of political concerns, while 29 percent said Republicans truly believed the bill was bad policy.
Of course, this was before the health care bill passed, so there’s a very good chance once Obama and the Democrats start selling it their fortunes could turn. It’s a better situation if they’d failed, not because they couldn’t have sold the public option in November to voters, but because the media would have savaged Obama and Democrats with headlines of “Obama Fails,” “Democrats Can’t Lead,” “Can Obama Lead?”, crippling their ability to get any further message across.
Both parties rise a bit in the CBS poll, with Republican numbers up over Democrats, though this might not last. We’ll have to see whether the Republican campaign to repeal health care, which is a lost cause as they’ll never get the majorities required to do it, or the Democratic action to sell it, wins out.
While the approval rating for both parties’ handling of health care has risen, it remains low. Thirty-two percent of American approve of how Congressional Democrats are handling health care, an increase of seven points from October. But sixty percent disapprove.
For Congressional Republicans, meanwhile, their approval rating on health care stands at just 25 percent, up from 17 percent in October. Their disapproval rating is 64 percent.
But in the Obama and the Democrats versus Republicans represented by “it’s a baby killer” contingent, aided by the spitting racists, as well as the naysayer conservatives and unhinged right-wing radio, people always choose the victorious over the downers of defeatism.
As for legal challenges, lawsuits to repeal the health care bill are already prepared, Virginia’s Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli ready to file.
Mark Halperin, who protected Obama from all 2008 realities and criticism in “Game Change,” does get this right.
In the 7½ months between now and November’s midterm elections, millions of Americans will be whipped into a frenzy over the purported evils in the Democrats’ health care bill, egged on by Fox News chatter, Rush Limbaugh’s daily sermons, threats of state legislative and judicial action and the solemn pledge of Republicans in Washington to make the fall election a referendum on Obamacare. But in doing so, they may be playing right into the Democrats’ hands.
If Obama and his surrogates now sell the bill, Democratic prospects for November just might rise.
This may very well be true if they sell it right. However, I don’t know how they’re going to get around the mandates which I find terrible. I still think they need to go for the public option. IMHO.
No one is going to allow a public option to be brought to the Senate floor. The political pressure on the Dem side will be intense. They’ll be more worried about Rep. tactics:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34837.html
“Go for a public option” is what Obama, Pelosi and the Democratic majority turned away from doing.
I know that Taylor. Like I said it was my honest opinion. People are already screaming about mandated insurance.
I can’t help but think that the spectacle of the protesters outside congress is a plus for the Democrats.The Repubs have gone so far right and are so seemly beholden to their fringe it will surprise me if they can take over both houses.
To me the biggest problem for Dems is the disenfrancisedment of what has always been their base. We will see if the new faux progressives will hit the streets for a mid-term.
I’m changing registration whenever I get around to it,to Independent and I’m not doing boop for the Dems including the giving to the women’s groups I have always done.
Like Jane I am concentrating my energy to local efforts to improve my direct community.Young people are going to have to step up to the plate ….or not.
LL – I’ve already changed my registration to Independent. There’s no way I’m supporting anymore “blood suckers.” My husband and I worked our hearts and souls out for Obama and health care reform.
“the spectacle of the protesters outside congress is a plus for the Democrats…”
Exactly why it’s always seemed to be agitprop to me. It’s just too convenient, like someone wants to tar the opposition to corporate health care with this brush.
It’s a long way until November. A lot can happen, with people STILL wanting to throw the bums out, regardless of party.
Joe sounded like he was running for something this morning and Mica was sickenly syncopatic.Larry O’Donnell was raving about the sheer brillance of the WH and Nancy Pelosi.
His point that because it was such a narrow victory it was the best anyone one can do might be valid in today’s corrupt congress but I thought Obama ran against that.
In another poll: 39% said they liked the bill that was passed, 43% thought it was too Liberal, 5% were out to lunch, and 13% said it wasn’t Liberal enough. Most of the people on this blog fall into that 13% who think that the bill wasn’t Liberal enough. With 13% of the people behind you, you ain’t gonna get nothing passed through the Congress. It sure is a pain in the ass to be in the minority, but such is life. Peace
First, your comment is worthless without a link so we can all read where it came from, etc. You need to back up what you’re saying.
Second, this isn’t about a LIBERAL bill, Imhotep.
It’s about an effective bill that doesn’t simply expand the pool while throwing people into a monopolized system with no choices.
People also don’t know about the tax issues about to hit them.
You’re also simply wrong on the public option, which has been the most popular aspect of health care being talked about, even though the Democrats ignored the people.
First there was a huge tranfer of wealth to the banks now we have a huge transfer to insurance companies,big Pharma and hospitals, The taxpayer on all levels is getting royally screwed.
Of course the wealthy will always have their lobbies and loopholes so guess who is going to hold the bag?
“Of course the wealthy will always,” etc……, your solution to that obvious problem would be? Peace
public financed elections
First you exapnd my comments well beyond what was said. For example I said nothing about the public option one way or the other. As for the rest of the assumptions that you made about what this bill will and won’t do, I’ll wait to see what happens in the future because my crystal ball was smashed to smithereens sometime back. Peace
The people have been so manipulated by both sides that their opinions are based on false information and definitions.I strongly believe that if some liberal concepts could be explained without distortion the public would support them.
Some people vote on a set of principles and their representatives go to Washington and do what they want with their main objective being their own personal power base.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/03/22/rel5a.pdf This is the poll Imhotep speaks of
Thanks GaBuck. It’s always good to meet a fellow traveler. One who actually keeps abreast of current events. Peace
Glad to do it. I just feel like the CBS poll cited here reflects the cynicism that most people feel about anything being done in Washington as opposed to policy.
Imhotep is 100% correct. And — drumroll, please — here is the link: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/22/cnn-poll-americans-dont-like-health-care-bill/?fbid=KXf3E_q9lGd
Money quote: “Roughly one in five of respondents who said they opposed the bill did so because it was not liberal enough, and those people are unlikely to vote Republican. Take them out of the picture and opposition to the bill because it is too liberal is 43 percent.”
Imhotep, you’re welcome
ogenec, on a personal note, I try never to tell falsehoods. Ever. If I don’t know something I research it. If someone tells me something that doesn’t ring true I look it up. You and I may be the only two people left in the world who are not too lazy or too intellectually dishonest to actually “speak truth to power.” Thanks for the link and for cutting through all of the everyday crapola that passes for “thought” these days. Peace
Thanks very much, ogenec, for posting the link.
You and I may be the only two people left in the world who are not too lazy or too intellectually dishonest to actually “speak truth to power.”
Actually, Imhotep, you’re both siding with the elite Democrats and the Obama machine, ignoring the Republican bill that Dems just passed, regardless of the poll about “liberal,” which doesn’t comport to the actual facts. Of course, if we talk about taxes, then indeed the bill is way too liberal, taxing too much.
As to speaking truth to power, that’s handled every day with what I write.
Where are these “actual facts” to be found that you cite? Most of the Liberals—actually they’re honest to God Leftists—have absolutely no problem with taxing the top 25% of income earners in the United States into submission. So I must conclude that it is Conservatives who feel that the taxes in this bill are too liberal. Peace
The taxes hit the middle class, Imhotep. Take a look at the deals the AFL-CIO made on union workers, which I’ve cited over the weeks, as late as the latest one on Friday (I believe).
I don’t know what you mean by “honest to God Leftists,” which do not exist in the political scheme of things.
All of my “friends” will be quite startled to know that they don’t exist. The union “cadillac plans” will be taxed way off in the future (2018) when most of these “old” people are forced onto the Medicare rolls anyway. A family of 4 making less than $80,000 dollars a year will have their health care costs subsidized by the government accoring to the language in the bill. That includes the bottom 75% of all family incomes in this country. So again I say only Conservatives believe that the taxes in this plan are too liberal. Peace
This was a Republican bill when Richard Nixon introduced it in 73, but after 4 decades of (mostly) GOP rule it is much closer to the mainstream. Actually Nixon’s bill was better than this one, but Teddy Kennedy wanted to be President, so no bill
Hey I’m siding with “elite” Democrats these days, if that means pragmatic then I’m all for it.
Nixon also set up the EPA. The crooked bastard did something right. Peace
You’re welcome Taylor. As for the charge that I’m siding with elite Dems and the Obama machine, I’ll just beg to differ. I’m writing a piece for 44D on my reaction to the madness surrounding the HCR debate, which should dispel this canard once and for all.
When will it be up?
LL, I’m hoping to have it up by the end of the week.
people don’t know liberal from smiberal
Hey ogenec….always glad to see you here. You articulate in a way that I could, but alas…No.
LOL. You keep selling yourself short. But I’ve been very happy with your writings of late. You’re almost sold on the “overhaul of health care via incremental steps” approach. Me likey.
IMO, health care come November won’t be THE issue….it will still be jobs, jobs, jobs. Unless the unemployment figures drop substantially it will remain the issue.
I agree that passing the legislation does deliver the Obama administration and Congressional Democrats from the public perception of being absolute failures. And perceptions do play a great part in these things, and maybe that’s why we saw Congressional Democrats managing their passage of the Bill in such a celebratory and historically reverent manner, maybe they knew too, that the perception of reform is the next best thing to actually doing it. As far as Congressional Republicans are concerned (who of course are dead set against any kind of reform or cost reduction or Public Health Insurance in this matter), I think their disappointment is genuine, for the obvious reason of denying them the “absolute failure” message they would have loved to run with, and because the ‘mandate’ denies them any health insurance lobbying finance toward “repealing” it (because why would private health insurers finance a repeal of that gift to them). As far as the several and strong legal challenges that certain States will make to the ‘mandate’, that also will be genuine, and it could fuel a lot of popular support, but from whom? From the uninsured who are thus ‘mandated’? I’d think them to be now more than ever in the camp for Public Health Insurance, and maybe the Obama administration needs to respond in that way, by asking all those who are now ‘mandated’ “Look, something had to be done, it’s either the ‘mandate’ or we enroll the uninsured in Public Health Insurance… what would you have done?” That rhetorical question could turn the argument away from the ‘mandate’ and back towards Public Health Insurance, which is where popular and sensible opinion are eventually going to go anyway.
How nice for you to come over from Huffington Post to comment. I appreciate it, Dem02020. Welcome.
Dem02020, who is that man you are using as your avatar? I know I should know that, but…..? This legislation did two things that those 65 and older will love and small business will appreciate. It closes the doughnut hole for prescription drugs and gives them a rebate in 2010. It gives small businesses a rather substantial tax break for providing health care to their employees. If those over 65 and small businesses are neutral towards or vote for the Democrats in November the Republicans lose. Peace
The portrait is of Daniel Webster, our former Secretary of State (at two different times under two Presidents) and U.S. Senator and Representative in Congress, in addition to being a foe of the Devil.
And I do think that the Obama administration and Congressional Democrats, while not achieving the health cost and insurance reforms we want and truly need, did manage the whole thing well enough, certainly to the disadvantage of Republicans (who oppose not only those popular reforms, but all popular reforms it seems).
I knew I knew that guy. Good choice. People don’t know near enough about Mr. Webster and they should. Peace
I believe it closes a $2500. loophole with $250 if I am not wrong about that.Some help I guess is better than none.
Most Medicade prescriptions average about $25 dollars so that $250 dollars represnts 10 additional prescriptions. Not a paltry sum for someone trying to survive on a fixed income. Peace
Did you mean medicare?
Taylor:
Are you kidding me?? This is a nation of morons. This bill will be forgotten in a fortnight.
What will sink the Democrats is that pesky 10% unemployment. We may be fuckwits, but we know when we are broke.
Ha ha ha
And though I would have preferred a public option, I think a heavily regulated private market where insurance is compulsory is not some kind of boogeyman. We just need to make sure we are doing the heavily regulated part.
The Netherlands does a very nice job with compulsory health insurance using private companies.
I would have liked something different, but what we have can work. Stop crying over shit that didn’t happen and let’s make sure this thing works like it CAN work. We have a terrible habit of valuing saying “I toldja so! I am RIGHT! We shoulda done it MY way. Look at me! I am right! Woot woot!” over actually making what we have into something awesome.
I couldn’t agree with you more. This bill is a good first step. Peace
The problem is that this bill is based on a model that we already is known to failure. There is never going to get the level of regulation that is needed to make this work and you know it too. Also IIRC all the insurance companies in the netherlands are nonprofit which is not happening here. You would make a good case IF it was done like the Netherlands but it IS NOT.
I think Switzerland does it that way too.
Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands
Just in case you need a link to prove that the Netherlands is, in fact, a real country and does, in fact, have a healthcare system similar to what we just got on Sunday night.
You obvioulsy didnt even read your own link. This is teh basis of the model in the Nehterlands but it not here:
A key feature of the Dutch system is that premiums are set at a flat rate for all purchasers regardless of health status or age.
Just dropping in for a minute…..didn’t want you folks to think I’d skipped out in the midst of health care – which is most important to me.
I don’t have time to read everything, but will get back in later.
Good thing, I’m ducking out right now – I’m glad it passed – and I believe we can and will begin fixing it – even to the tune of a public option. Then when I pick NCAA brackets, I tend to pick teams I want to win – my husband tells me I’m second in the office NCAA picks.
I’m still angry at how health care has been handled – in particular by Obama, Rahm, etc. But we’ve got a pile of crap that can be composted.
BBL
Weezie2008 -
I couldn’t agree with you more. Let’s make it work. It’s not perfect, not what I wanted but I’m not whining. Good for the President, good for Congress and I never thought I would say this, but good for Pelosi.
I’m sure you’re aware that Pelosi hates Rahm. She thinks he’s a foul mouthed phoney and a weak-kneed weenie. Once again Ms. Pelosi knows of what she speaks. Peace
I don’t like him either imhotep, omg….another agreement with Pelosi? Scary.
Oh come on guys let me whine for a few more days.
No LL.
Don’t let people call righteous opposition to an insurance give away make you feel like you are “whining.” There are reasons to applaud a few things in the bill, while there are many, many reasons to stand firm that it is a bad bill. That’s not “whining” and don’t let others tell you it is.
As I wrote in response to a reader at HuffPost today:
With a Democratic President, Speaker of the House and a Democratic majority, the Dems had a majority of American behind a public option, which would have offered choice, competition, as well as kept costs down. Then add to that what’s good in the bill and you not only have historic legislation, but a good bill.
Democrats settled for less than was possible producing a bad bill that’s also very conservative and rewards insurance companies.
I have never written that there aren’t good things in the bill, but considering the straight flush Dems were dealt by the voters, it’s shooting for the low bar.
It’s whining. Especially when we’re going to spend $180 billion dollars this year fighting two illegal and stupid wars. One in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Let’s stop wasting that $180 billion dollars every year on these idiotic wars and spend it to “fix” what’s wrong with this newly passed HC legislation. Peace
100 percent agreement from me.
Why are you whining Imhotep? Surely you had to know that Obama was too spineless to do anything about those wars. Take your medicine and be quiet like a good little girl.
I agree, Taylor. I’m still happy the bill passed, however.
BTW LL, I agree with your public financing of elections comment up thread. Problem is it will never happen.
If Obama had stayed with his original stated position that he would accept public financing in 2008, he would never gotten elected, imo.
13 lawsuits already filed. Here we go.
They’re all Republicans and if I’m not mistaken they are all running for some office or other in their respective states. Just more kabuki theater for those chained to the cave floor watching the shadows move past them. Peace
No I did read that part. Which is why I said HEAVILY REGULATED. And I also said that we need to make sure we are doing the HEAVILY REGULATING part and not being cowtowing peasants worshipping at the alter of our corporate masters (which Americans are really really really good at doing, because we are stupid fucking peasants). I am saying that IT CAN WORK, if we make it work.
Taylor, I don’t think you are whining. I think there is a fine line between “Yay we got something, but here is what we did wrong and where we dropped the ball” and “Neeener neener fucking luzrz! Rambama is teh suck!”
I don’t think you are doing that (lots of others on other sites are though – I like this site because it is critical without being ridiculous). He needs to be bullied a little bit by his liberal base. Someone needs to remind him that wingnuts are not the only people who can get loud and intimidating. Spend time trying to GET US TO LIKE YOU…
But that part aside, lets make this bill work. We can TOTALLY do it. All the dems are feeling all badass in congress right now. Let’s encourage them too act. Pooh poohing won’t help that. Being a loudmouth about demanding hardcore regulation (like enforced flat rates, etc.) will.
Shorter version of all that: Nitpick and tsk tsk him on his slavish devotion to trying to get Republican approval, when they have told him in a THOUSAND ways to fuck off and die.
But don’t tsk tsk the bill. Pressure them to make it better.
Well, Pelosi has already announced that they aren’t doing this. They are done with healthcare and that’s why this bill is so bad. It’s bad because there aren’t going to be improvements and it has a framework that is literally ripe for abuse.
Hiya TM
“With a Democratic President, Speaker of the House and a Democratic majority, the Dems had a majority of American behind a public option, which would have offered choice, competition, as well as kept costs down.”
This bill is a major start in that direction. One of the things it contains is the beginnings of moving us away from pay per fee to pay per results. That’s something health care reformers have been trying to get for years. It could literally transform the whole delivery system. When I told that to my elderly landlord who loves his current health care plan he said that one thing makes the whole bill worth passing.
Ron Brownstein had a great breakdown of it last year. He’s talking about the Baucus bill but so much of the stuff he wrote made it into the final bill including the cost controls.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/09/what-baucus-got-right/26797/
I know he took a lot of heat but Baucus did some stuff that none of the other four bills came close to. Especially the cost controls and and financing.
Health care reform was never about the public option. Sebeillus tried to make that point last year and she got slammed in the blogosphere. It’s a good piece but if it has to be scrapped along with Medicare buy-ins to get a health care reform bill passed so be it.
It ain’t perfect but if the guy who invented the public option says PTDB that’s good enough for me.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/leading-health-care-experts-tell-house-to-pass-senate-health-care-bill.php
Heya Daryl24.
If you’re interested, I’ve also got some video on the signing here:
http://www.taylormarsh.com/2010/03/23/obama-signs-historic-health-care-bill/
Please remember TPM is a leading elite Dem follower. They do *not* post critical or unbiased statements about Obama or the Democratic majority. They also are the last to report on anything having to do with women.
Yes, I’ve noticed that.
The improvements are in the reconciliation bill the Senate is going to vote on. Both Houses worked out a deal and both seem to agree the improvements beef up the bill. Right now I think she’s right. At this point they have got to start dealing with jobs and financial reform and immigration reform and all the rest.
They’re coming back to it just not now and after 14 months I can understand that.
Taylor that is not quite accurate. As I remember, Steve Clemmons was up The administrations ass on Gitmo, torture, and executive powers. But no, they really could give two shits about equality for women.
Fuckers.
Steve Clemons is proprietor of The Washington Note, not TPM.
It’s not whining.
It’s a deep and heartfelt mourning for what should have been.
Hey Taylor. Thank you for the link.
Here’s Hacker back in December.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/why-i-still-believe-bill
And with Daniel Hopkins in January
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/19/AR2010011902846.html
I like somethings to the healthcare bill and somethings I don’t. I like that kids in college and after high school will be on there parents insurance until 26, I like the pre-existing conditions and the insurance companies won’t be able to kick you off. I am against a mandate period. I think people should not be forced to buy into healthcare if they don’t want too. I am so glad I am switching from democrat to independent. I don’t want the federal government to get too powerful. I am a strong believer in the seperation of powers and states rights. This is a federal republic and I like to keep it that way. I like some of whats in the bill and want to keep it that way but other things I don’t like and want to go. I don’t want either party to ever get this much power ever again. I don’t want the law repealed but I want it fixed but I do support the AG’s how are suing the federal government know that this is a federal republic and the federal goverment better not over-step its power. This goes for both parties in the federal government. We need a check and balance government which we do not have right now. Both parties let power get to there heads when they were in the majority and they become corrupt so I want both parties to need eachother to pass bills and work together.