My issue with Bubba and with Obama is they are BOTH DLC Corporatist Clowns and Blue Dog Democrat sell outs. Clear enough? Plus I will never forgive Bubba for literally getting caught with his pants down by Ken Starr. The man has no self control, never had it, never will.

I have no idea of this Navy of which you speak, the Navy I was in for 22 years had no such resources and no such mission. The subs I was aware of were excellent at blowing stuff up. Measuring oil flow from a ruptured well? Not so much.

The U.S. Navy may have access to contractors that have deep sea submersibles, but the Navy itself has no such assets. It has no plans nor procedures, no instructions, no expertise for handeling a deep sea well rupture. It has no wish be tasked with such a responsibility. It has no wish, nor the ability, to establish command and control of the sight. This is all Coast Guard, all the time. This is something the shallow water sailors are supposed to be expert at. Placing the Navy in charge of this operation is an epically foolish notion. It would make the situation worse.

To recap, I don’t need no stinking google. I know the organization that I was a part of for 22 years. I know its strengths and I know its weaknesses. I know the resources and the mission. I know the command and control structure. I know the Navy intimately. One more time, it is not the organisation that has either the tools nor mental hardware to deal with this situation. Not even in the movies.

One more time, those skimmers are spoken for. They are part of a response plan for the local bays, inlets, shores, etc. where they are based. To ship them off to the Gulf would leave local response bare of resources.

Secondly getting many of those skimmers on sight would more trouble than it is worth. You have to put them on heavy lift ships that have other missions and other jobs in line. You then have to set up logistics to support those ships far from their home ports.

Supporting ships at sea is no trivial matter. Even being able to support ships with COTS ( Commercial Off The Shelf) items is no easy matter. Supporting ships that adhere to MilSpec requirements is a freaking nightmare. I did it for three years at a purpose-built facility in San Diego called SIMA. Items can have lead times of 250 days and then some. You have no idea what “fun” it is to find sourcing for something as simple as a MilSpec motor generator. Been there, done that, got the freaking t-shirt, multiple times. And the motor controllers for those MilSpec motors? ( Think on/off switches from hell, purpose-built, with specs from the Korean War) Woo-who, fun, fun,fun getting parts for those beasts. I’d rather have my teeth extracted without the benefit of Novocain.

This meme about unused skimmers is pure crap. Even if were true, which it is not, it is not a simple matter of nominating a skimmer czar or some such. You have to build a logistical chain out of whole cloth to support them. This is no trivial matter. Even at a command who’s whole reason for being was to fix ships and get them deployed on time, we had to pull some major miracles and bend the rules into ungodly shapes just to accomplish the mission. Now take that difficulty and multiply it by a thousand and you would have the hurdle the logistical chain would have to support ships in the Gulf. My guess is that the supply types at Meridian, Ms. and Pensacola, Fl are already running at full-tilt-boogie just trying to support the assets we already have there.

Again, I understand the frustration you have with our efforts in the Gulf, I share them. Obama has been lackadaisical and gullible, depending far too much on the good graces of BP. Still, that does not change the central fact that his oil-disaster-response cupbord was bare. We had no plan B for a blow out at these kinds of depths. We had no resources. We had a “plan” xeroxed by BP that had no connection to reality. Our options suck. We have to wait for the relief wells to be drilled. There is more than enough to fault Obama for; but the 40 skimmers not being used? Pure, undiluted, bull puckey.

Actually no, Morris1030. The US Navy has no such capabilities. Not part of their mission, not their field of expertise.

What the Navy would have is a targeting solution to blow up the well. It is the shallow water sailors who should have ability to measure the oil flow. But that appears not to be the case as they have allowed BP to put out endlessly bogus information.

The Coast Guard is not part of the U.S. Navy and except in times of declared war is not even part of the Department of Defense ( nor its predecessor the Department of War ) It was part of the DOT (go figure) and before that, part of the Department of the Treasury. In time of declared war, the Coasties do fall under the Department of the Navy.

The latest initiative, that is coordinated by BP and the Fed is described below. If it works, it will make a huge difference.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/29/gulf-oil-spill-a-whale-of_n_629575.html

The above might disapoint those who also think that Obama is an irrational fool who refuses all the foreign help that may make a difference. And just in case you are wondering why the skimmer is only arriving now, I hope that the huge size of the boat and the fact that it is coming from Taiwan will make you pause before blaming Obama for the delay.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=10824254

There is no coordinated effort.

Anything BP says is suspect as they have continually fudged and lied about about this from day one. They had no containment solutions in place for a spill and assured all with the help of our corrupt MMS that they “could handle it”. Bp along with all other oil companies in deep water haven’t a clue as to how to stop this. They also assured us for a long time that this was never likely to happen.

At least the Navy has the facility to assess how much is spilling and can offer begtter contgainment. BP does not run this country. Unless we allow them to, and now see the results of this folly

The Navy has all the facilities, sub atomic submarines, and much knowledge as to how to measure what is spilling into the Gulf and not rely on BP’s lies. The Navy who can direct the Coast Guard [currently unfocused and lacking strategy] can begin a Chain Of Command which is crucial in estimating the actual amts being spilled, containment and cleanup, and most certainly can blow up the well and cap it.

Navy has immense knowledge and resources.

The only underwater sea monster awakening here is your pranoia and lack of facts. Google the Navy’s abilities and resources to handle this.

Obama did virtually nothing for months, did not speak to BP CEO, ancd is still dithering the way Obama dithers. Now it’s just vague speeches and photo ops as the Gulf, it’s people and wildlife is being harmed more every second this is not dealt with.

BP is running the show??? Obamabots say discretion? There is no leadership or expertise here and the lack of relevance in has become obvious.
Obama is out of his element and clearly overwhelmed. His cadre of advisors are not capable of assessing the damage to his presidency as this was an opportunity to seize this tragedy
from day one and take over as he learned [openly] how to constuct a clear plan in view of all Americans. Especially those in the Gulf whose lives are being destroyed along with our land and its creatures.
Discretion? How about inexperience and cluelessness combined with dithering on just about everything including Salazar,Dept of Interior, and MMS that Obama promised to clean up when he ran for this job?

Exactly how deep is the pipe (where it intercepts the oil source)? I’m certain I can look this up myself… but if you have the answers handy..

Also — Isn’t actually intercepting the pipe at these depths tricky as well? I know that’s the reason for drilling two… but they can both miss, right?

Who said that all the answers will be found here?

Just that it is nice to learn from those more knowledgable than me on this issue.

LOL
Yeah, for about 10 years.

It’s fun discussion, but I have my doubts as to the “solutions” suddenly being here and lost everywhere else.
I’ll try to be nicer, though.

Not.

But as NSF says correctly, the downside is what’s scaring everyone off. Please, post any article (fair usage applies), link, etc. that you want NSF. Thanks.

You are however correct in that physicists fear that detonating an explosion near the surface would lead to an uncontrolled leak from a myriad of fissures that would continue in perpetuity until the well ran dry.

But when it happens to us, oh noes, its BPocalypse.

Ms. Marsh talked about being “small”. This is one more indication of just how “small” we have become as a nation, that we only care about the problems of this world when they affect us directly.

Not in oil exploration, though. Which is why there is a very clear limit to the insight I can offer.

This guy is trolling. You have been very helpful in trying to advance the discussion.

“The concern I have is what you outlined in other areas of the post. The shattering of the seabed by the explosives could make this a much worse problem.”

That is my concern too. Remember, Lawrence Livermore Laboratories, our best minds in the country, have been tasked with analyzing this problem.

Their concerns are the same as ours: shattering the seafloor is a very grave risk.

http://tinyurl.com/3a3by6m

Your announcing that everyone else doesn’t know what their talking about isn’t helping.

I will look and see if I can find the video and I will post it, if I can here…not sure if I can though…most people don’t post articles here.

I really don’t see any reason to give my credentials to you, pmichael, or defend my knowledge of re: my profession. It’s on a “need-to-know” basis. NFS and I have had short conversations about it in the past as we both work in engineering (yet unrelated). Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant.

As NFS has an advanced understanding of fluid mechanics and has worked as a civil engineer I was trying to invite someone else with a similar background to join the debate. Maybe you are that person and you’re just holding out?