Sect. of Defense Gates released a statement:
“I read with concern the profile piece on Gen. Stanley McChrystal in the upcoming edition of ‘Rolling Stone’ magazine. I believe that Gen. McChrystal made a significant mistake and exercised poor judgment in this case. We are fighting a war against al Qaeda and its extremist allies, who directly threaten the United States, Afghanistan, and our friends and allies around the world. Going forward, we must pursue this mission with a unity of purpose. Our troops and coalition partners are making extraordinary sacrifices on behalf of our security, and our singular focus must be on supporting them and succeeding in Afghanistan without such distractions. Gen. McChrystal has apologized to me and is similarly reaching out to others named in this article to apologize to them as well. I have recalled Gen. McChrystal to Washington to discuss this in person.”
Reading Pentagon tea leaves is rarely edifying, but this seems to telegraph that Gen. McChrystal may actually withstand his insubordination.
If this is the case, Pres. Obama and SecDef Gates have set a stunning new precedent that minimizes the presidency and the critical importance of civilian authority over U.S. military.
Looking deeper into the Rolling Stone article, several things jump out, but one that is particularly important.
But on June 10th, acknowledging that the military still needs to lay more groundwork, the general announced that he is postponing the offensive until the fall. Rather than one big battle, like Fallujah or Ramadi, U.S. troops will implement what McChrystal calls a “rising tide of security.” The Afghan police and army will enter Kandahar to attempt to seize control of neighborhoods, while the U.S. pours $90 million of aid into the city to win over the civilian population.
Even proponents of counterinsurgency are hard-pressed to explain the new plan. “This isn’t a classic operation,” says a U.S. military official. “It’s not going to be Black Hawk Down. There aren’t going to be doors kicked in.” Other U.S. officials insist that doors are going to be kicked in, but that it’s going to be a kinder, gentler offensive than the disaster in Marja. “The Taliban have a jackboot on the city,” says a military official. “We have to remove them, but we have to do it in a way that doesn’t alienate the population.” When Vice President Biden was briefed on the new plan in the Oval Office, insiders say he was shocked to see how much it mirrored the more gradual plan of counterterrorism that he advocated last fall. “This looks like CT-plus!” he said, according to U.S. officials familiar with the meeting.
Beyond McChrystal’s gross insubordination, V.P. Joe Biden’s theory on Afghanistan is the story, because there are signs that’s where we’re now headed, which will intensify McChrystal’s antipathy for his civilian bosses.
As far as I’m concerned, COIN has failed abysmally in Afghanistan. Not only does it hamstring our soldiers from what they do best, but it actually could be the reason our casualty rates are climbing, because regardless of McChrystal’s fierce loyalty to soldiers and their fealty to him, his policy requires U.S. military put civilian casualties before their own defense. You can’t half fight a war through nation building in a country with terrain more treacherously challenging than Vietnam.
What I’ve said even amidst my support for Obama’s continued Afghanistan push, is that regardless of what we do the Taliban will outlast us, so some meeting of the minds has to occur at some point. That it’s not happening is obvious, but that it’s also now unmasked the chaos of command and control on Afghanistan policy is horrendous for U.S. foreign policy in other regions, specifically in the Middle East, where you can bet our allies and adversaries are taking note.
If Gen. McChrystal stays in place, whatever we hoped to accomplish in Afghanistan is over, and Pres. Obama’s foreign policy authority will be reduced to nil.
Taylor, I could not agree with you more.
The article talks in part about the enemy being “the wimps in the White House”, not to mention the insubordination you already mentioned. If Obama does not fire him, then he is indeed a wimp and parading his weakness.
This is *the* seminal moment in Obama’s presidency so far, Ramsgate.
This is so because it’s a moment that could ricochet through history and change the presidency itself by altering the civilian power of control over the military.
Harry Truman knew this and we’re about to see if Barack Obama does, too.
Well, Obama always seems to do the opposite of what sounds right to me so I am not holding my breath. I totally agree with Taylor on this he must be fired no matter the correctness or incorrectness of his opinion. We have a civilian run government and it needs to stay that way. No matter how inept the civilians happen to be now or in the future.
If you think about it the various srevices are the best run most effective govermental organization we have. It is full of volunteers who admit their loyality is to each other over country.Without the bright line of authority clearly drawn what protects us from a junta in the future? We are already starting to look like a banana republic in many ways.
I would be *Very* suprised if No Drama Obama relieved the General if his Command.
Rush spin today is stunning even for him:
http://twitter.com/taylormarsh/status/16785104913
Oh, and another thing, if you want to know why I always doubted DADT would move forward, regardless of the presidential PR, read this section from Rolling Stone, which really is a seriously packed piece of journalism that is commendable on all fronts.
“I’d rather have my ass kicked by a roomful of people than go out to this dinner,” McChrystal says.
He pauses a beat.
“Unfortunately,” he adds, “no one in this room could do it.”
With that, he’s out the door.
“Who’s he going to dinner with?” I ask one of his aides.
“Some French minister,” the aide tells me. “It’s fucking gay.”
And they said that while drinking Bud Lite _Lime_
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/how-mcchyrstal-and-co-blew-the-rolling-stone-profile.php?ref=fpa
I understand the job is stressful, but if they can’t hold it together on a bus ride, they can’t handle the Taliban.
I wonder how soon we will know? From Gates, it sounded now like he will disciplined but not dismissed.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/6/22/878306/-Rolling-Stone:-The-Runaway-General
My feelings are mixed. John Kerry asked for people to “stay cool and calm”, and I agree. Too often on the left we succumb to hotheaded emotions.
My only concern is the success of the mission and the safety of Americans. I’m not worried about Obama. He has proven to be quire adept at defending himself. If McChrystal is the most talented and qualified person for the job, I’m reluctant to dismiss him. I know he is supported by Sec. Clinton, and I am inclined to trust her.
I think, on balance, he should resign, and the President should not accept his resignation.
Another interesting story is from TPM: “How Rolling Stone Won The News Cycle And Lost The Story”
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/how-rolling-stone-won-the-news-cycle-and-lost-the-story.php
Imagine what Rolling Stone could accomplish if they weren’t blindingly incompetent. They buried this story under Lady Gaga.
Tomorrow earliest, unless McChrystal falls on his COIN.
Oh please! name me one other news organization that is anywhere near them for reporting.If you are going to take your thinking from Josh marshall I can’t help you.
You misunderstand the criticism.
It’s not with their reporting, which is brilliant, but with the management at Rolling Stone that buried the story and lost it to Politico.
As I said, imagine what more they could accomplish if they (as in the management there) weren’t incompetent.
This story almost didn’t see the light of day.
After reading more of what this jackass in uniform has to say I must change my opinion of what must be done. FIRE him, discipline him,DEMAND he resign his commission.
Exactly. One cannot read that article and see it any other way. There are no extenuating circumstances. He has to go. If he had any class he would have resigned; he hasn’t as yet, so he has none. Therefore he MUST be fired.
Totaly agree with you guys! I’m sorry but after reading the whole article he sounds like a case of suspended adolescence.I don’t care if he is brilliant and only eats one meal a day and only sleeps four hours a night and runs seven miles a day. Maybe if he got some decent nutritian and some rest he would display some judgement.
See UCMJ:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm88.htm
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;
(2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;
(3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and
(4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used. Note: If the words were against a Governor or legislature, add the following element
(5) That the accused was then present in the State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the Governor or legislature concerned.
Explanation.
The official or legislature against whom the words are used must be occupying one of the offices or be one of the legislatures named in Article 88 at the time of the offense. Neither “Congress” nor “legislature” includes its members individually. “Governor” does not include “lieutenant governor.” It is immaterial whether the words are used against the official in an official or private capacity. If not personally contemptuous, ad-verse criticism of one of the officials or legislatures named in the article in the course of a political discussion, even though emphatically expressed, may not be charged as a violation of the article.
Similarly, expressions of opinion made in a purely private conversation should not rdinarily be charged. Giving broad circulation to a written publication containing contemptuous words of the kind made punishable by this article, or the utterance of contemptuous words of this kind in the presence of military subordinates, aggravates the offense. The truth or falsity of the statements is immaterial.
THANK YOU TAYLOR!!!! I would have posted this in the previous post but these accounting classes are KICKING my ass!!!
heh-heh…
I don’t see any other way he could stay on as General. He said all this when he was in uniform. There are rules against that. Military officals are held to a higher standard and if General McChrystal stays on it will send a message that this sort of behavior is acceptable which it is not. When he is out of uniform he could have then made these statements. If president Obama and the administration keep him on, this will demean the presidency and will be played out this year until 2012. You would think they would see this.
Absolutely agree.
GAWD!!!!! This is such a no brainer IMHO. The man should be fired. Should have been immediately fired. If Obama does not fire him (and I do not believe he will) he will come to regret it.
The world waits and watches.
In the Rolling Stone article McChrystal pays deference to Secretary Gates, but his praise is almost perfunctory. McChrystal fawns over Hillary however. That’s telling. McChrystal rips into Obama, yet his obsequious, almost servile, treatment of Hillary goes a long way in explaining who wanted to escalate the war in Afghanistan and who did not. When fighting an insurgency every civilian killed nets three new insurgents. That said COIN was the only viable policy to follow. Those who have never been under arms would have no way of knowing that fact. Peace
uh breaking- a fed judge has overturned the 6 mo drilling deepwater ban. holy fuck. im stunned. for a judge to jump into a potus directive like this in the wake of a dsiaster and need to mae sure these rigs are safe etc is stunning. every legal analyst had said any judge who threw out this resonable moratorium would be suspect. i wonder if this is a repub judge being an activist here? obama says he is appealing it asap.
The ruling came from a judge in Houston and you’re stunned? I’m stunned that you’re stunned. Now let’s get back to how big a warmonger Hillary is and how she’s never met a war that she didn’t want to send 100,000 young, naive men and women off to fight and die in to satisfy her own ideolocical leanings. Neocon that is. Peace
here si the judge’s disclosure forms. the dude is on the take with big oil. he should be impeached. i know- congress is too wussy to d it. adn appealing to the 5th circuit? lord that place is full of bush’s best.
http://slabbed.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/katrinas-who-dat-judge-martin-feldman-now-dabbling-in-oil/
Imhotep. Your an asshole. I am sorry. But your clinton derangement syndrome is so freaking far gone it’s pathetic. I know. It’s understandable. Witnessing someone who has the ability to make those decisions in regards to national security and not job security seems strange. I get that.
I am so effing sick of these type of remarks based on ignorance. What do you expect? She has a working relationship and experience that span more years than I have been alive. I know that may seem hard for you to understand. Reality is like that for some people. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
COSIGN!!!!!
cosign!
Imhotep has a problem with the Clintons in general and women in particular.
I love to see you dropping in…even though I disagree with your thoughts on McCrystal. Always interested in what you have to say.
Let’s get back to what a one trick pony tool imhopless is and how mind numbingly boring his drivel is.
His authority is being challenged every where he turns. His fault. All bark, no bite.
It began a year ago with the bankers.
Yes. The world waites and watches indeed Ramsgate. However what they failed to miss in the most important aspect of this story. Which is not the right question of the hour. But the questions left unsaid. Today in my opinion is a sad day for the military. One in which I will get to in a moment. It is simply astounding how everyone is so quick to rush to judgement. I do not agree with Taylor in regards to COIN being a failure. I do not agree at all that General McChrystal should be fired or relieved. Because as leaders, your job is not to just execute the mission by providing the resources and tools available to do so. But to lead, guide and train your soldiers.
So tell me, will we as a country redefine “military leadership” by allowing our “tools and resources” to do our job become dictated by who screeches the loudest on the left or the right when they don’t get their new “pony”? Where was the outrage when the Secretary of Defense stated that if funding for said mission everyone is discussing does not happen. That in almost a weeks time frame decisions on who will have, and who will not will be the “questions” decided?
I am going to keep it real because so many are worried about the bruised feelings of those who are more concerned with showing whose is bigger. Where was the fucking outrage when the “aids” discussed in that blockbuster new book by John Alter:
He dressed them down in more direct terms than had been used by a President toward the military, I was told, than any President since Truman fired MacArthur
But I guess it’s okay since it appeals to those who seem to think leading, guiding, and training soldiers and leading them on wartime missions is just a means to make people look bad. Amazing. Everyone loves to read about what those “mysterious” aids say in regards to closed door meetings. I doubt highly those in question got a courtesy call about all of those juicy “tidbits” in question.
Tell me, what is it like for any soldier to see there superiors being turned into individuals to be used as equivalent to campaign donations and rallying the base to show they know how to deal with those “meany neo-con bush holdover generals”?
Please. If they wanted success in Afghanistan they would execute the strategy outlined. However how much can you get done when you have to beg for funding? How successful can you be when you have to work around a goddamn timeline set in place that is only their to appeal to those who need to come out to vote in 2012?
They threw there own military to the side and under the bus. You have no idea what the hell is going on, but people are out in full force. Instead of getting all the facts, they bought out the swords. If General McChrystal is fired or resigns. The heart of this military will go down with him.
Hi soldier4hillary, I haven’t seen you on here before….let me say welcome!! Now lets get down to business here:
I defer to Taylor’s excellence: Taylor Marsh says:
22 June 2010 at 1:42 pm
See UCMJ:
PERIOD! A General, IN THE PRESENCE OF SUBORDINATES, may not speak on the record, off the record, around the corner from the record about the Commander-in-Chief and be allowed to keep his job. This is the United States Military and he is a Career (Was a Career) member so he was aware of his neglegience in all of this. It’s not just taboo, Its forbidden. How he escapes this without the seal of the President intervening on his behalf to make an exception when he should be made an example of. If I were an advisor to the President, (And ohhh how I wish I were) I would advise him the best thing he can do at this point is show General McBigMouth to the door. REALLY, If I were gates, I would take him by the scruff of the neck and seat of his pants and throw his ass out on the street.
soldier4hillary says:
22 June 2010 at 2:29 pm
Always good to see you and read what you have to say.
That said, I’m calling bullshit on it.
The heart of this military will go down with him.
This is preposterous. Gen. McChrystal has an amazing record and is an incredible soldier and mind. But he is ONE MAN, with many soldiers actually disagreeing with COIN, especially when it comes to civ cas and the notion that they should avoid them at all costs. Even the Rolling Stone article, which McChrystal has in NO WAY rebutted, instead apologizing, reveals this conflict inside the military. COIN is still being debated among the best of our military, with many unbelieving.
And in fact, the mission has already morphed into CT+, according to many.
As for SecDef Gates, your charge about funding is incorrect, but also misinformed. The Pentagon budget is bloated and needs cutting. There is no way any SecDef, let alone one as seasoned and experienced as Gates, would do ANYTHING to jeopardize the mission or the men. Anyone saying otherwise needs to read deeply into the budget and pick up some more facts.
I appreciate you very much, soldier4hillary, but no one is talking about “success in Afghanistan.” You seem to be of the mindset that we can spend our way to victory. It’s nonsense.
Having supported Obama’s policy from day one, but also having educated myself as much as I can on it through all manner of think tank events, lectures, listening to every type of expert around, my very well informed opinion rejects wholly your traditional viewpoint that one military man matters more than the military chain of command and the power of the presidency.
We are a democratic republic. The military answers to the civilian and will offer his criticisms privately, without exception.
I think General McChrystal should be required to sit thru my accounting lecture (Joke). Seriously…The General was outspoken from the onstart of President Obama’s administration. The General has no one to blame but himself.
truman edured months of macarthur’s sht- nd macarthur was a popular figure mind u. mccrhystal isnt popular. people keep comparing this to a truman/macarthur moment. but remember thr firing of the popular macarthur ent the public into a rage and only yrs later did people really praise him for the firing.
soldier4hillary says:
22 June 2010 at 2:29 pm
****I am going to keep it real because so many are worried about the bruised feelings of those who are more concerned with showing whose is bigger. Where was the fucking outrage when the “aids” discussed in that blockbuster new book by John Alter:
He dressed them down in more direct terms than had been used by a President toward the military, I was told, than any President since Truman fired MacArthur*****
Needless to say I disagree with your point of view. Moreover, regarding the paragraph you mentioned above: I believe that Alter is an Obama apologist and these sentiments were his payment for access. Never in a million years would I believe that Obama dressed down McCrystal & Gates in direct terms. Obama simply doesn’t have the guts, period to confront anyone. That’s as credible as Ronald Reagan taking David Stockman “to the woodshed” which later on turned out not to be true.
In any case How does McChrystal bitch-slap his commander-in-chief and get away with it? Isn’t that called insubordination? Doesn’t Obama have to terminate him in order to show the troops that insubordination won’t be tolerated? Heck, McChrystal’s own team would not understand Obama’s conduct if he doest’t fire him. It would be something else for them to joke about.
Right on Ramsgate…Alter is a total tool.
Well hold on a second there.
You know, I get caught up in the emotions too. I find myself believing the second hand sources in the media I want to believe, and dismissing those that paint a portrait of reality that contrasts with my own. I am not defending McChrystal. But when I read stories like this from the WaPo:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37857469/ns/politics-washington_post/
I tend to take pause.
I’m not really concerned about Obama. He’s capable of handling himself.
I am concerned about our success in Afghanistan and the lives of our troops. I don’t want anything to jeopardize that.
My ideal solution would be for McChrystal to offer his resignation and for Obama to refuse it.
Richard Engel, a reporter I trust, probably one who is closest and most knowledgable of truth on the ground just reported on Hardball, that there was a general concern among the military leaders in Afganistan that Obama was NOT engeged with this war.It is not going well and he is not focused on it.
Have you read Alter’s book on Obama? I’m asking as I’d like to know what prompts you to say Alter is a total tool?
I believe that Alter is an Obama apologist and these sentiments were his payment for access
___________________
B-i-n-g-o. Alter’s Obama book was called “The Promise: President Obama, Year One.” Gag! The details of the big “dressdown” as reported by Alter? Obama quote unquote told McChrystal he was “exceedingly unhappy” with the Pentagon’s conduct and that the leaks in advance of his decision were “disrespectful of the process.”
I agree. Alter is absolutely an Obama apologist and was dishonest when he covered the primary. I doubt that Obama dressed anyone down. He was intimidated instead.
Vote Vets begins a petition calling for McChrystal’s dismissal:
http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/6676/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=3464
Beautiful. Only problem is that Obama is always delegating his authority maybe because he does not want to get his hands dirty — to Max Baucus & Harry Reid; to the Joint Chiefs; to BP etc.
As Commander in Chief he could fire McChrystal.
. . . And immediately ORDER his commanders to accept and execute DADT.
From conservative Victor David Hanson:
If an officer cannot figure out Rolling Stone, how can he understand the Taliban?
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YTQ4YWZkNzY4YTE1NDE1NGM2NGViNDZjMmJjMTViZmU=
Good question!
interesting.
Stick a fork in him, he’s done.
Kos is reporting the story that he’s done.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/6/22/878445/-Is-the-writing-on-the-wall
Obama’s use of the word “poor judgment” is the kiss of death there.
FTMFA!!! (ahem, Fire the Motherf*cker Already). Props to Dan Savage
Gen. McChrystal is gone, the only question is…will he be allowed to resign? IMO, McChrystal is actually looking for an easy out with a resignation so he can’t be pegged with failure in an increasingly difficult Afghanistan.
A court martial that busts his ass down to Colonel is in order.
Your analysis fits the profile that emerged in the full piece in Rollingstone.
It’s anyone’s guess what will happen to McChrystal. I don’t think he will be fired. From everything I’ve heard today from TPTB (Obama and Gibbs comments as well as Gates’), I’m getting the impression that being fired may be on the table but it will not happen.
Also, saw this commentary and analysis and I agree with this course of action that Obama may take. I also agree it’s the best option of no great options. And, as with all of us, this is just my opinion.
http://tinyurl.com/37cxlzn
We shall see.
good point
But there was one person whom McCrystal respected: Hillary Clinton. And I would love to hear what she has to say, honestly. There is a lot more to this story. McCrystal knew what he was doing and did it intentionally. He was obviously ready for the consequences. He was also being a truth teller about what is really going on in Afghanistan. So the question is not whether he will be fired….the issue of Obama being a wimp is long settled….but why he did this. What is the ulterior motive? Clearly, there is chaos in the administration…on several fronts. But nothing changes the fact that Obama is in way over his head. But is nevertheless not the least bit concerned about being well informed. It’s all about the photo op. Obama is not in charge. We have one disaster after another and a spiraling lack of confidence in this administration. On the other hand, there are the Joe Bartons of the other side.
Your ‘concern’ is noted…