“… In the meantime, the United States will participate in an open-ended, international intervention to stop Gadhafi, but the goal of that mission day to day and the time line on which it will be carried out are, frankly, unknown. For all the clamoring here at home for presidential communication to the nation on this, well, you got it, America. You got the clearest possible presidential statement about the muddiest possible ongoing, indeterminate international situation, otherwise known as a war. …” – Rachel Maddow (3.28.11)
It’s exactly what Hillary Rodham Clinton would have done, which is why she’s been out front on it. So I really don’t know how Obama’s fan club and die hard supporters are dealing with reality right now.
Via the UK Guardian: AC-130 gunships and A10 tankbusters, of the kind used in Iraq and Afghanistan, have been deployed by the US.
Pres. Obama’s talk about “Gadhafi must go,” while rationalizing a manufactured distance from George W. Bush based on ground troops, might make some progressives backing the President’s move feel good, but it still amounts to the same outcome while the U.S. leads the effort: regime change or bust.
Obama’s chosen another leader to topple, because he’s become an inconvenient dictator, though the methods will be different than Bush.
[...] Air commanders provided an example of the role of American intelligence-gathering. Air Force eavesdropping planes intercept communications from Libyan troops and relay that information to a Global Hawk drone flying high overhead. The Global Hawk zooms in on the location of armored forces and determines rough coordinates. In some cases, the drones are the first to detect moving targets. The Global Hawk sends the coordinates to analysts at a ground station, who pass the data on to the command center for targeting. The command center beams the coordinates to an E-3 Sentry Awacs command-and-control plane, which in turn directs F-16 and Harrier jets and other warplanes to their targets. “Our message to the regime troops is simple: Stop fighting, stop killing your own people, stop obeying the orders of Colonel Qaddafi,” Admiral Gortney said last week. “To the degree that you defy these demands, we will continue to hit you and make it more difficult for you to keep going.”
Regime change by other means is still regime change, with the U.S. military the only thing allowing the “rebels” to advance.
Anyone believing the U.S. has stepped back from involvement is missing our role in NATO, which is exactly what Pres. Obama and his surrogates are counting on.
In transferring command and control to NATO, the U.S. is turning the reins over to an organization dominated by the U.S., both militarily and politically. In essence, the U.S. runs the show that is taking over running the show. – Associated Press
Hey, but if you like an open-ended, international intervention without a day to day mission or goal, but which is all about regime change ala Bush, then Obama’s muddy, ongoing Libyan war that has no end game is for you.
But if Gadhafi is ousted just who do you think will be the ones building, paying for and creating those “institutions” Pres. Obama says Libya will need post-Gadhafi?
And if someone can tell me who comes after Gadhafi, I’m all ears.
the obama fan club is gone wild! or what is left of them. the rebels now appears trapped and are begging for help. france is setting upa cmte to recommend what they want to do. rbit ministers say we cannot attack ghaddafitowns head oon bc its in violation of the resolutions. and on huffpo someone from nato says there are al queda elements in soem of the rebel groups. MUD. if obama doesnt remove ghadaffi i dont think the public would find that acceptable- and the right wing noise machine wills avage obama if he fails to do this. i recall when bush I did not remove saddam many americans were furious, felt he was weak for not “finishing the job.” bush was right but alas. these sure are depressing times we live in. nothing is going right! so here we are- rebels need helpa nd trapped. and let s forget congo, ivory coast, syria etc.. after all they are reformers!
T4H
Pay attention to the gunships. As I pointed out in “In the news” that is not trivial military weaponry. With complete control of the skies, NATO can slowly grind Gaddafi’s military machine into a fine powder. Both the AC 130 and A-10 support the M61 Vulcan, a Gatling gun from hell. Both have canons and other ground-pounding, close support weaponry. With those airframe spitting lead, and dealing death, Gaddafi won’t have a military to speak of soon. Gaddafi is mostly using Mercenaries to prop up the regime, but I guarantee those men did not sign up to become target practice for NATO gunships. They will break and run–soon.
One of the military truism in Desert warfare is that he who controls the skies, controls the outcome. There is no where to hide in the desert when air power comes calling. Gaddafi’s forces can hole up in the cities, were air power is less effective, but that is not a long term strategy. Sooner later the problem of resupply will rear its ugly head.
Obama is using an air power strategy, which will work, sooner or later. This is a repeat of what NATO did to Serbia in the 90′s, only played out in the desert. Serbia broke under the pressure, so too will Libya. The issue then becomes what to do with a broken Libya. That is the real question T4H.
“there are al queda elements in soem of the rebel groups”
Nope, Al Qaeda is in Algeria, different Nation and only 300 people or so there. Anyone who brings up Al Qaeda in the Libyan situation is ether ill informed or lying or both.
groudn troops? so says nato comand – ver poss after liberation
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/03/nato-chief-opens-the-door-to-libya-ground-troops/#
Well, this is why I preferred Hillary back in 2008. At least you knew what you were getting and there would be none of this Obama tactic of doing something but not doing something.
Hillary Clinton would have gotten us into this mess as well. Once in it’s still the same mess.
But I will say Obama’s Iraq war speech fans must feel really silly right now.
“if someone can tell me who comes after Gadhafi, I’m all ears.”
Muhammad as-Senussi, full name Muhammad al-Rida bin Sayyid Hasan ar-Rida al-Mahdi as-Senussi. Pretender to the crown of Libya.
http://bit.ly/e79XYj
He is gunning for the slot and has the advantage that he is the head of the Senussi order. One third of Libyans adhere to this Islamic sect.
http://bit.ly/fea6c3
There will be at least some kind of attempt to have this man installed. Everything old is new again. Monarchy does have its advantages, just ask the Saudis. The once and future Kingdom of Libya? Who knows, it is a freaking mess by the shores of Tripoli and we are right smack-dab in the middle of it.
Gaddafi managed to suck up all relevant power in Libya, co-opting or killing any opposition. It may take a generation of nation building to get the Nation to rights.
This is Pottery Barn on steroids, with the US and Europe arguing over the bill. The bickering over who broke what and thus has to pay for that piece of damages will not be pretty.
How Obama managed get caught in this cluster-fuck is a mystery. I really did think he was smarter than this. I am going to have to ponder that question. Exactly how did Barack Obama become George W. Bush in black face?
Sorry it took so long to respond – I was out all last
evening.
The question was meant tongue in cheek, as I’m not at all convinced Libyans will take a monarchy, which is why people got Obama to move militarily.
Sayyid Muhammad ibn Ali as-Senussi was a Wahhabi, if that gives you some idea of where this could all head. From there it’s all about tribal kick backs, sort of like what goes on in Afghanistan. It all equals stunningly high corruption.
Praveen Swami has a great piece up today:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8394647/Defeat-the-Libyan-regime.-And-then.html
The way this whole military situation has evolved has been screwed up from the begining, especially the message. I have been hearing on tv that diplomats might let Gadhafi go to another country !! I think people should speak their mind on issues and situations without looking to their party first because they have a D or R next to their name. People are also asking why not help the people in Syria, Yemen, Ivory Coast, Congo among others. I keep thinking to myself, what else can go wrong !!
Time to impeach and indict O-bomb-em and Hitlery for violating the Constitution and for war crimes.
The bombing attack on Libya was caused by the fact that
Qaddafi was defeating the CIA/MI6 Al Queda forces in the desert. This would have been a great blow to these “People Power Coups” crafted by western intelligence agencies upon the Brzezinkian model.
Of course Qaddafi was courted by Bush and Blair for their own nefarious ‘Great Game’ strategy, but using Qaddafi to go after Saddam Hussein has run its course, the bankrupt financial oligarchy wants not only oil, it wants to destroy nation states, to make these countries more open to the looting by the west’s pirate ships such as the IMF.
Mubarek was in the way because he was against an attack on Iran.
Time impeach and indict Obama and Hitlery Clinton.
QADDAFI UNDER THE BUS?
Why did Obama bomb Libya, after reluctance even to a “No Fly Zone”?
Well it probably was not just the pressure of Neocon John Kerry, or desire for blood from “Hitlery” Clinton, yes this is what she would do.
Well of course Obama is a warmonger puppet who follows orders, but suppose he was genuinely opposed to bombing, the question is what made for the sudden reversal?
One hypothesis is this, OBAMA WAS BLACKMAILED. Yes perhaps the British and the French threatened to disclose the real truth of Obama’s birth, or greater yet, that perhaps OBAMA HAD RECEIVED CASH FROM QADDAFI ???
This is a question that must be asked.
Remember that Qaddafi’s son Saif stated that Libya had funded Sarkozy’s election. This is not very far fetched, and considering Obama’s friends in the US,criminal elements like Rezko, Soros, Goldman Sachs, Rev. Wright, Farrakan, etc. Obama a Muslim, “son of Africa” as Qaddafi once praised.
Qaddafi strangely enough is the only one really fighting against the fascist western financial oligarchy’s strategy of remaking the political maps of the Arab world, to include attacks against Russia and China using “People Power Coups”.
A CLARIFICATION~
I would like to make a clarification in my post QADDAFI UNDER THE BUS?
In the next to last paragraph, to avoid an unfortunate confusion, I should have made a separate paragraph, where Qaddafi’s praise for Obama, as a Muslim and ‘true son of Africa” should have been discussed in its own right and respective honor.
Politically Qaddafi may well have had hope for Obama, hope that could well have been padded with wads of cash. One might never know, but the question should be asked.