“… But [it] creates, I think a problem for them when they want to actually run in a general election where most people feel pretty confident the President was born where he says he was, in Hawaii. He– he doesn’t have horns…we’re not really worrying about conspiracy theories or– or birth certificates…” – Pres. Barack Obama, interviewed by George Stephanopoulos
Donald Trump has blown away Sarah Palin in the unannounced GOP-Tea Party sweepstakes, also putting a hurt on Mitt Romney. On the other side, union leaders join a lot of disgruntled Democratic activists who are discovering Barack Obama only talks sweet when he needs something from them; trouble is he never gives anything back.
“Trump takes the lead” is the headline today on the Public Policy Polling results that show Trump pulling away due to birtherism. So whether it’s luck or serendipity, tonight he’ll be on Sean Hannity’s Fox News Channel show talking about just that subject.
From PPP, but make sure you read the details, because they’re odd as hell for a presidential race.
Only 38% of Republican primary voters say they’re willing to support a candidate for President next year who firmly rejects the birther theory and those folks want Mitt Romney to be their nominee for President next year. With the other 62% of Republicans- 23% of whom say they are only willing to vote for a birther and 39% of whom are not sure- Donald Trump is cleaning up. And as a result Trump’s ridden the controversy about Barack Obama’s place of birth to the highest level of support we’ve found for anyone in our national GOP polling so far in 2011.
Trump’s broken the perpetual gridlock we’ve found at the top of the Republican field, getting 26% to 17% for Mike Huckabee, 15% for Romney, 11% for Newt Gingrich, 8% for Sarah Palin, 5% for Ron Paul, and 4% for Michele Bachmann and Tim Pawlenty.
Meanwhile, Pres. Obama was in Chicago making sure “the campaign is in your hands,” one of his reelection lines. So it looks like the President won’t even take responsibility for earning your vote. Instead he wants to dump this dog in your lap after you gave him a huge win in ’08, with Obama swaggering into office with the press at his feet, the people ready to follow him, while the world watched and waited for greatness or at least Democratic competence. Instead what Democrats got was a man who adopted Republican economics, with a large dose of Bush foreign policy, so that the middle class is being set up for another rout.
Reports are coming out that labor leaders let Pres. Obama have it a closed session.
“Now, not only are we getting screwed by the Republicans but the Democrats are doing it too,” said one union official, characterizing the mood at a summit of labor leaders who are worried that Democrats seem unlikely to go to the mat for them as an election year approaches.
Voters in 2008 put the country in Barack Obama’s hands and what he’s done with it is deliver Republican outcomes. No one should be impressed, which is why even though rank and file Democrats remain behind him, the people who push for better Democratic policy prescriptions while the rank and file go about their lives are not.
Not surprised about Labor. He said he would put on his “comfortable shoes” and walk with them but chickened out when the time came.
But then that’s Obama for you.
In reality, he put on his cleats and walked all over them!
Not surprised by Trump poll numbers…it seems anybody who prompts hatred and birtherism toward Obama is popular with the GOP. So, I guess the Republicans have finally find their Ronald Reagan for 2012…TRUMP!
As for Labor being angry at Obama I say…join the club. Their is a long list of Dems pissed off at the President now days. But of course Obama could careless if these people are upset just as long as they forgive him in 2012 and show up to vote.
Birther’s are racists. Do you really think they would do this to a white president. No matter what you think about Mr.Obama, he is the president and should be treated with respect and dignity. These people treat him like dirt. This would never would have been allowed in the past. ” The blacks,” is a Brooklyn, Queens and New Jersey way of saying “nigger.” I am from Brooklyn, lived in Queens and worked in New Jersey; I am speaking from experience. As far as the labor movement is concerned, they should stop dumping all their money into the Democratic party and give it to the Green party. The Green party stands for everything they say they want. I suggest Mr. Trumka stop sniveling, wake up and visit the Green party website.
Actually, in Crooklyn “blacks” = “nigga” (same goes for the Boogie Down [Bronx] and Shaolin [Staten Island], it’s only on the Upper East Side, (Trump’s current residence) where they use “nigger”.
fangio – they checked McCain’s during the 2008 elections.
By the way, Obama is not for the poor or the middle class. He doesn’t care about anyone but himself.
Would you vote for a black conservative president? Mr. Cain is thinking about running and he is owner of Godfather’s pizzas. He is black, but, conservative.
I might add that Barack Obama is by no means the first Presidential candidate whose natural born citizenship has been questioned. McCain’s was questioned, as you point out. Also I remember George Romney’s and Barry Goldwater’s in the 1960s and Lowell Weicker’s in the 1980s were questioned. And there’ve been others.
woops, not owner, former CEO of Godfather’s Pizza.
Polls. If I remember correctly, at this point in the last republican primary Rudy Giuliani leading and favored to win.
Hillary was leading by 30 points in fall of 2007; by January 2008 that lead was wiped out.
Yeah, you’re right thanks to the kool-aid drinking media and swooning Obama democrats. We’ll never know what difference electing Hillary would have made. I’m betting the difference would be huge.
There is nothing disrespectful or undignified about being asked to present your long form birth certificate. I’ve been asked and done it, as have millions of other Americans when obtaining a passport, social security number, driver’s license or other documents; many states require it.
The United States Constitution sets out only two requirements for qualification to be President: age 35 or older and a natural born citizen, both of which can be verified by long form birth certificate so there’s nothing unreasonable about any citizen asking a Presidential candidate to present it.
BTW, John McCain was asked to provide his and he did so.
Are you saying that the state of Illinois vetted state senator Obama and either could not find out about his birth or found out and keep it a secret? What was their motivation?
Are you saying that then, the US Congress vetted US Senator Obama and either could not find out about his birth or found out and keep it a secret? What was their motivation?
Are you saying that again, the Secret Service, the FBI, the CIA, the Justice Department, the DIA, Interpol, the Massad, NASA, they all vetted President-Elect Obama and either could not find out about his birth or found out and keep it a secret? What was their motivation?
It’s insane.
Nope, not saying any of that.
I’m saying that considering the two simple requirements for Presidential eligibility in the US Constitution it’s reasonable, not disrespectful, for citizens to ask any Presidential candidate to provide a long form birth certificate and for the candidates to do so.
I agree with Fangio, above.
Not interested in entertainment or gossip from someone who claims to be a SERIOUS analyst, either!
Ronc99~ Who are you talking about with your “serious” comment?
I don’t know if it was on purpose or not, but I believe that the juxtaposition of these two stories, Trump the birther and the Unions’ dsiappointment is a strong statement. All of Mr. Obama’s defenders, like the Labor Unions, have been getting hosed. Gitmo closed? Out of Iraq? Out of Afganistan? Public Option? Military Tribunals? End the Bush tax cuts? Card check? Hosed!
Looking at past performance, I expect that when the birth certificate is released it will show that Malcolm X was the father.
I just received an email from the DNC asking for money to “help protect Medicare.” They have a hellava lot of nerve after all the broken promises and betrayal of Democratic principles the past two years.
But then a lot of Democratic voters clearly are not committed to Democratic principles.
Zaladonis,
The last two years???
Yes the last two years.
Clinton made many compromises to get legislation passed but his policies and what he fought for were aligned with Democratic principles.
And that’s true of every Democratic President during my lifetime. Until Barack Obama.
Let’s try and be adults. We are not talking about presenting a piece of paper. It’s about insisting that the paper does not exsist even after it has been presented. It’s about repeating this over and over again in the hopes that if enough moronic Americans hear it they will begin to believe it. It’s about linking the birther issue to things like Kenya and Indonesia. It’s unseemly and un-american. These people are racists, plain and simple. I am no longer interested in race relations, I lived through the sixties and seventies and have had enough of that; however, I will not pass up a chance to ” call ” a spade a spade.”
It’s about insisting that the paper does not exsist even after it has been presented.
But, the ‘paper’ has not been presented. When it has, your argument would be correct. Howerver, since it hasn’t, you have no argument. That is the problem.
A certificate of live birth, has been presented. However, people were awfully quick to point out that the above is not a birth certificate when such was presented by Mr. Trump. After which, Mr. Trump presented his long form birth certificate – a step that Mr. Obama has not taken, a step which leaves this argument un-resolved.
At some point, as this drags on, even the lick-spittle minions at the MSM will wonder why Mr. Obama doesn’t request the release of his long form birth certificate. It won’t be tomorrow, but it will happen.
Trump did not present his birth certificate long or otherwise. Trump presented a hospital certificate and that is not a valid birth certificate.
That’s not true.
Trump did release his Birth Certificate. Here’re links to an article reporting it and an image of it on ABC’s website:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/03/donald-trump-releases-official-birth-certificate.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/page?id=13248168
I really don’t think it’s a race issue. After all, we have three African American congressmen from here in GA and no one is asking for their birth certificate. It’s about the fact that he lived in Indonesia and there’s still a lot of stuff that’s not known about him like during his college years. They are using this lack of general knowledge about his background to fuel conspiracies. It’s about raising doubt and Obama has not shown that he is trustworthy on issues so they’re trying to parlay that into trustworthiness in other areas.
If you go to some of the conspiracy websites, they are saying that Obama was legally adopted by his stepfather and changed his name. I don’t see how that could be true though. We’ve seen the COLB and it had his name on it.
what is it you want to know about his college years? Seriously, I have been hearing this about Obama for three years….’he is not being forthcoming about his years in school, we don’t know anything about him, he has no friends who talk, blah blah’ – can you tell me specifically what you want to know that he is not revealing? (and not the transcript thing…NO college is permitted to release a student transcript without permission of the student, except in the case of a subpoena from law enforcement or in the case of validating attendance/graduation for verified employer).
Where did he live? Does he have any friends from college? He doesn’t seem to have any from Harvard though he seemed to be sort of a loner there.
As far as the college records go, Obama could have them released but I really don’t care about that. I’m pretty sure that they wouldn’t have let him graduate or go on to law school without a degree and transcripts.
Who were his friends in Chicago? When someone goes from being an unknown to President in 4 years, it makes for a lot of questions.
elizabeth1949 – Yeah, I don’t it either.
Some of the people on this blog don’t sound very liberal or progressive. They seem to be apologists for the right ringers. If his life is such a mystery to them then they can read an article in The New Yorker magazine which was published about two years ago. It traces his career from Harvard to community organizer, to the state house and the U.S.Senate. You can sugar coat it any way you like, it’s still a cover for racism
That’s interesting. What’s been posted here that you think doesn’t sound very liberal or progressive? I ask because I haven’t seen anything that fits that characterization.
Well Politico had an article but the campaign declined to comment on his years at Columbia. One of his friends would talk but the others were afraid to speak because they were Muslims.
One of the revealing things I remember from that New Yorker article, if it’s the one you’re referring to, was that the one or two people quoted in it who knew him at Harvard said the Obama they knew bore no resemblance to the way Obama described his college student self in Dreams From My Father. I also remember, in the article, Obama shrugging that off as if such a disconnect were normal.
For me none of this is as pressing an issue now as it was in 2008; now what we know from his behavior as President is plenty to deal with. But at the same time the same issues about him remain and that validates the concern some of us had that voting for him even in the General Election was a mistake. The mystery of his childhood and college years, and even to some extent the early years of his marriage to Michelle, was troubling. My concern was less about the details of what he’d done and more about his detached demeanor coupled with his penchant for secrecy and lying and not being who he said he was or doing what he said he’d done, or his record as public servant of not fighting for what he promised with such verbal skill to do. I did, and still do, recognize that he meets the criteria of a sociopath.
What the hell’s the difference between a certificate of live birth and a long form birth certificate. NONE! It’s just semantics. The newspapers in Hawaii all announced his birth. There is a stamp and signature on the back. Hawaii and many other states donot release original birth certificates to the media. CNN saw the live birth certificate. I donot think it is very liberal to be giving the right wing ammunition by agreeing with them. With friends like you who needs enemies. Your just collaborators,apologists and appeasers. Long form birth certificate? I never heard of it before the right wing started screeching about it. How easily you bought into it. It will be so easy for the fascists( tea party) to wipe the floor with you.
That’s what defines liberalism for you? Wow. How Republican of you. Look, the point of authentic partisanship, of agreeing or disagreeing with the opposition party, is based in the principles of liberalism or conservatism, not in blindly defending any individual public servant’s secretiveness. This is the kind of thing that used to really anger liberals, Democrats, about Republicans – defending Tricky Dick or Reagan or Dubya when they lied or were less than forthcoming with information relevant to the position of President.
The long form birth certificate is not the same as the short form certification of live birth; they are, in fact, very different documents. The former is issued at the time of birth completed by the attendant at birth or a hospital administrator, then forwarded to a local or state registrar, who stores the record. The later, which is what the Obama campaign released, is completed later (Obama’s is stamped 2007) and is nothing more than a piece of paper claiming something happened. What Obama is keeping secret, and I’m not speculating about why he’s hiding this document, is the original birth certificate issued at the time of his birth. I think if Democrats want to protect the integrity of our Party and liberalism, we’ll encourage our Democratic elected officials to be forthright. It’s not like this issue is irrelevant to the job of President – it’s specifically on point with the only two requirements laid out in the US Constitution. It’s very easy for anybody to get a copy of their own long form birth certificate and show it publicly. Obama’s never given a reason for failing to do so, and that’s what continues to feed this ridiculous issue. Once again he’s in a position to lead from problem to solution and he won’t do it.
In previous posts I have very clearly stated my dislike for Mr.Obama. I will not vote for him again. I have called him a collaborator; he has commited treason in the name of compromise. I also mentioned how he worked the system in his rise to the presidency. During the campaign there was all this crap about the serendipity of his rise to power. There was no serendipity, every step was planned. In that same New Yorker article Mr. Obama is shown visiting a redistricting specialist who uses a sophisticated software to map out the perfect combination of voters to get him elected. Again, in that article, people at the Harvard Law Review are shocked at the lack of change that took place when he was president. It’s another case of people creating something in the man that really isn’t there. Mr. Obama is an empty suit. He became what his rabid supporters wanted him to be. If you look at him at the beginning of the campaign and then later in the campaign, you see two different people. One is bland, one is fiery, one is listless, one is engaged. There is a reason he had those huge rallies; he didn’t want to get to close. There is a reason he uses high tech teleprompters that come out of the floor, he can’t string two words together without them. None of this, however, excuses this moronic obsession with his birth certificate. I still maintain that birthers are racists. I still maintain that they treat him with a lack of respect. I still maintain that people like you are doing nothing but giving them ammunition. Calling out Mr.Obama for his failings is one thing, latching on to some right wing freak show about his being or not being born in this country is a sell out!
Well we agree about just about everything but the birth certificate. As I’ve said there’s nothing inappropriate or disrespectful about citizens calling for any Presidential candidate to provide proof he/she meet the only two requirements set out in the US Constitution. It’s been done before, several times, with white candidates, so calling it racist is ridiculous.
As I’ve also said, if it were up to me I’d let the issue die because no good can come of it at this point, but it’s also true Obama could end it by simply showing his birth certificate so ultimately it’s his fault the question remains open. It’s one single document that’s easily obtained; it’s reasonable to wonder why he’s keeping it secret.
How would it look to the rest of the world if the president of the United States had to get down on his knees and grovel to a bunch of right wing extremists. ( Of course, now that I think of it, he does that anyway.) In any case, I believe it would appear somewhat pathetic. This, I believe, is an important issue. It again comes back to the question of respect. He is the leader of the free world, you don’t treat him like a guest on Maury Povich. It goes to the heart of what this country has become after almost 20 years ( not including Clinton’s eight years and Obama’s first two years) of Republican control. We now live in an angry, vulgar, greedy and in some ways unlawful country. We treat each other with distain, we ridicule, shame and libel each other. Rather than moving ahead we,ve traveled back, back to a more uncivilized time. This will be my last post on this subject but I would like to leave you with a line from an old Ted Danson TV show. He ran a medical clinic in the south Bronx. He was taking a class at driving school to avoid having a spot on his record. The instructor asked, ” Who goes first after a four way stop?” Danson said, ” I live in the south Bronx, whoever has the gun goes first!
Providing a birth certificate is not getting down on one’s knees and groveling. Or if it is, then the laws requiring the presentation of one’s birth certificate should be changed because there’s no reason any citizen should have to grovel to receive a passport or driver’s license.
The US Constitution requires our President be 35 or older and a natural born citizen, and the way we verify that in the US is with a long form birth certificate.
As for this:
You imply this bad behavior is a result of Republican control and that’s not true. Every single one of us is responsible for our behavior. If half the people around me are vulgar, greedy, unlawful and treat me with ridicule, disdain and slander, it still is up to me how I behave. Republicans are responsible for their bad behavior and Democrats are responsible for theirs. Prior to 2008 I certainly had plenty of passionate, sometimes even contentious, discussions with Democrats (notably in 1979 when Kennedy primaried Carter) but always there was a reasonable level of respect and certain assumptions of good character. In 2008 that changed. That’s when Democrats started attacking Democrats with ridicule and vulgarity and personal venom. Including right here on this site.
This is what our culture has become and although it was simmering towards it already there is no question it boiled over with the Obama crowd, and that absolutely includes Democrats who voted for Hillary in the Primary and then attacked Democrats who continued to point out what kind of President Obama would be and reminded fellow Democrats that not voting for Obama was a legitimate option. With Obama –not because of him but because of the millions of Americans who gave free reign to their nastiest selves in the name of electing him and keeping a Republican out of the WH– we turned the corner from a society struggling with deterioration to a society in steady and sure decline; I say that because it hasn’t gotten better in the past two years, it’s worse and coming from both parties.
Who is it that populates Fox news?, who is it that populates shout radio?, who is it that smeared John Kerry, smeared Bill Clinton and smeared Mr.Obama? Where did all the racist hatred come from, where did all the screeching about birth certificates come from, where did all the talk about liberals being heathens, evil, unchristian, muslim lovers and enemies of the people come from? Who accused liberals of hating the military, hating god, killing the unborn, being communists, socialists, creating death panels,protecting pedephiles? Who is it who accused gays of wanting to convert our children into homosexuals, who said that gays were child molesters? Who is it that filled the media airwaves with vitriol, who is it that backs one extremist organization after another, who is it that constantly screams about immigrants invading our society and stealing our jobs. I’m so tired of people like you and your broad brush. I’m sure you will come up with one example after another showing how democrats are just as bad. I would expect this. Your just so fair. You seem to be obsessed with the 2008 election and all the really bad thingss that were done to poor Mrs. Clinton. Screw poor Mrs. Clinton. Here we have a U.S.Senator, wife of a former president, who says she voted for the Iraq war because she did not have all the information. Is it not her job to have all the information! Iraq is not the only example of her groveling at the feet of George W. Bush. She was part of a large group of democratic collaborators. She is a militarist(as witnessed by her pushing to intervene in Libya),she constantly tried to belittle Mr.Obama, she used her husband to do all the filthy work. She thought she could get elected by being the female George W. Bush. I’m sorry your so upset about poor Hillary, but the reality is that poor Hillary is another example of how repulsive republican campaign tactics have polluted the democratic process. People like Hillary are lead to believe that the only way to be elected in this country is to be a pig! It is republicans who turned this country into a bunch of screaming meanies. People like you, with your fairness and balance, your broad brush, your olive branch in the face of pure evil; you are the problem. I have come to hate democrats, I have called for a new party because it is the only answer. Democrats are weak and ineffective, their weakness has resulted in servitude to the republicans, but to blame them equally for what has happened to this country in the last twenty years is inane.
LOL! You sure are good at getting facts wrong and revealing your own bias!
Nowhere in this entire thread do mention Mrs. Clinton. Not once. And certainly not as victim or “poor Mrs. Clinton.”
The only time I even typed her name was, “Democrats who voted for Hillary,” which was about voters, not Mrs. Clinton.
But in that mischaracterization you do reveal a lot about your own thinking.
Not a fan of olive branches; I’ve offered them a few times in the past and every time it’s come back to bite me. I’ve learned that human beings are consistent and whatever they do that raises the need for an olive branch, they’ll likely do again. So I don’t go there. All I’ve done here is point out facts and reason, and introduced critical thinking — three things in short supply in discussions these days.
So be it!